Only Allah knows best
rare u are on ignore because you dont have manners like your watcher crazy guy.
thanks for the info brother cooldude and it was nice talking to you here. You seem to be a good addition to the already present group of intellectuals here that include pristine, degas, malik, mariah, and fraudia. Welcome aboard. By the way I am shair.
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I respect your opinion brother, but wher does it use the word “wives” in that ayat regarding removing rijs (nijasat), it says ahlebait and Hazrat Ayesha or any other was not ahlebait.
[This message has been edited by shair30 (edited October 23, 2000).]
Shair: my pleasure
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Too many posts on here get out of hand with people’s emotions taking over their rationality. Just leave these people on ignore, that is no way to give dawa!
If you look at the previous ayat 33:32, 33:33 continues on from this. This is what I was referring to when I said the whole ayat should be written.
The ayats were normally revealed due to certain circumstances at that time. I will check to see what they were when this ayat was revealed.
I find that people don’t look at the whole Quran when searching for something. Thus they can get a distorted view of what Allah is actually saying.
u bet buddy. totally right!
I am not going to say anything regarding the personal attacks, because someone who disregards the sahabas, sahabiyats and prominent figures of Islam can not be expected to respect anyone else. I had a question regarding your statement that Hazrat Umer (PBUH) and Hazrat Usman (PBUH) are not shaheeds. Where did that come from? Your attitude has only gone on to depict the authenticity of your statements. Nothing further needs to be said.
Rare: You shouldn’t take things so personally.
If you disagree with someone, you should present your arguments and let them respond. I understand your comments totally, but don’t get frustrated if people don’t accept them. People have been brought up believing certain things. If you know that they are wrong then you have to give them Dawa, just don’t give up
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Yaar, patience is a virtue!! Eventually we will all gain Jannat, Inshallah
Hey rare,
no need to yell. prove it that they were shaheeds. They were not shaheeds,you cannot prove it. Baat suno, mera mun mat khulwao warna mon kee khao gee, samjheen. I can tell you one more thing that Hazrat Umer ran back fast from ghazwae ahzab (khandaq) when marhab called who wants to fight with me, its a known fact.
shair
Shair yaar:
How do you know that they weren't Shaheed?
Whether they were or they weren't, Only Allah has this knowledge.. how do you know?
Well. No offoence, but they always ran from ghazwas. In ghazwae uhad they ran alongwith several other sahabas who were deputed to watch enemy from ghatee (mountain top), but they ignored Prophet’s orders and ran for maleghaneemat and enemy attacked again. It is then when Prophet (s.a.w.w) lost his dandane mubarak. Again, I am not trying to offend you brother, just unwrapping the facts of history, bitter ones.
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shair.
Shair30, the way you talk to a female is enough to say what kind of a person you are. And plus this name calling and use of foul language is evidence to the fact that you are avoiding all of my original questions. I said in my first post that Hazrat Umer and Hazrat Usman (PBUT) were shaheeds. And you denied that. I know for sure, that Hazrat Umer (PBUH), Hazrat Usman (PBUH) and Hazrat Ali (PBUH) were all shaheeds. And it's not just me, all muslims do believe in this fact. Since you are the one questioning that, perhaps you should prove that they were not. And also along with that, proof to me that Hazrat Ali (PBUH) was shaheed.
When one is arguing one should keep their accent, volume of voice and choice of vocab decent. The way you have addressed me, is the way used by ignorants who don't have a valid backup and instead manipulate the original points.
And still in all your un necessary aggression I will not let you go un answered.
Answer the question asked, if you must argue..
It surely states that Shaheeds are alive, but where does it say it's okay to ask them for help?
or that they play a convincing role in acceptance of duas?
And do u deny these quotations from the quran, where Allah speaks for Himself loud and clear?
**"Say: 'He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Eternal. Absolute; He begets not, nor is he begotten; and there is none equal or comparable to Him'" (112:1-4)
"There is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing." (42:11)
"He is the first [nothing is before Him], the Last [nothing is after Him], the Most High [nothing is above Him], and the Most Near [nothing is nearer then Him]. And He has full knowledge of all things." (57:3)**
Despite all these qualities He has mentioned himself, He still needs a helper or Hazrat Ali (PBUH) to take prayers up there to Him? Or play a role in the process of acceptance?
Thereofore, should one call Allah SWT for madad or Hazrat Ali?
so this gives you a right to yell more because you are a female. comeon gimme a break. Go talk to your ulemas before arguing, got it behna jee!
a shair for my little sister
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rare and diamond,
keh raha hay shore darya se samader ka sukut
jiska jitna zarf hay utna hee wo khamosh hay
adaab!
Desert Fox and others, shaheeds are indeed not dead in a sense. Ok. *Can you tell me please: *
**Where IN QURAN does Allah asks you to ask “shaheeds” for help?
Where IN QURAN does Allah say that you need a connection of shaheed or some imam with Allah, to ask help from him or to communicate with Allah?
Where IN QURAN does Allah asks you to go on to graves of Imams or Prophets and prostrate in front of their graves?
Where IN QURAN does it say that you can ask Ali for help and not Allah? **
Considering the matter, there were other sahabah who were also “shaheeds” i.e Omar, Abu- Bakr, Usman etc.
I have listed my references below, make sure you do give me answers to questions above with proof(s) from QURAN only!
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**You deny hadiths for some reason. At the same time you say that you ONLY believe in Quran, but your beliefs and practices completely contradict with Quran and its teachings. ** Here is an example: "Shias believe that the Imam is impeccable, that is, he can never go wrong, and that he knows about the future. Can anyone know about the future other than Almighty Allah?!! This belief of yours contradicts the following verse: "“He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make anyone acquainted with His Mysteries,”(Surah Al-Jinn(72) verse 26).
Another verse Allah says: *And you will not cause failure [to Allah] upon the earth or in the heaven.And you have not other than Allah any protector or any helper- Surah 29, verse 22. (29:22) *
Despite the fact that those verses are in quran, you still ask the Imaams for help, and make Imaams a connection to communicate with Allah. It clearly contradicts the teachings of Islam and Quran. It is wrong. And it is called denying the verses of Allah, which is kufr!
I am sure you will say “we do not do that”(i.e worshiping graves and asking Ali for help other than allah, considering Ali a connection between you and Allah, etc.) There is a practice in your religion(shiaism) you know what it is called? Its “taqiyyah”. You often practice that.
PS: Just for the sake of unity and self-respect, I do not want to start any “never-ending” debate between “blind-falseness” and truth and light of Quran and Sunnah. It is better, if you do not start these things with my name in your posts. It is better for you, it is better for your faith and it is better for “some” tolerance that we have here for each other. Please. One more thing, DO NOT label me with some sect’s name or any stupid stuff like that, those things only suit you. You maybe a “proud shia” I consider my self a “Proud Muslim,” there is a big difference. Good Luck and Take it easy sir.
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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
Shair30 Bhai sahab, aik to main qatun yell naheen kar rahi. Mairay sawalat aisay hain jin ka aap kay paas koi jawab naheen hai aur aap ko aisa lag raha hai, apni androoni feelings say kay main yell kar rahi hoon. Mairay sawalat chubhti hoi nauiyat kay naheen hain. Aap hi kay post parh kar in sawalat nay mairay zehen main janum liya hai.
Main to simple sawalat gosh guzar kar rahi hoon, bara e meherbani mandarja zail sawalatat kay jawabat mauiddbana aur shareefana andaz main tehzeeb kay dairay main rehtay hoay merhamat farmaiyay
1. Proof kijiyay kay Hazrat Ali (PBUH) shaheed thay.
2. Proof kijiyay kay Hazrat Umer aur Hazrat Usman (PBUT) shaheed naheen thay, halankay tenoon ka andaz duniya say rukhsat honay ka aik he jaisa tha. Kuch bad bakhtoon kay haathoon poori muslim Ummah ki rayay kay mutabiq woh shaheed kiyay gayay.
3. Proof kijiyay kay Allah SWT ko kisi madadgaar ki ya kisi ki sifarish ki zuroorat hai, apnay bandoon ki dua'ain qubool karnay kay liyay.
4. Aap kay khayal main is baat ki kiya wajoohat ho sakti hain kay sirf Hazrat Ali (PBUH) hi ko madad kay liyay pookara jai? Why not the Prophet SAW?
Apnay jawabat par bharpoor roshni daliyay aur Quran ka hawala zuroor dijiyay. Aap ka yahan par sukoot bilkul munasib naheen hai, kiyun kay yeh is baat ki akasi karta hai kay aap kay paas mandarja bala sawalat ka koi jawab naheen hai. Aik baar phir talqeen ki jati hai kay aap apnay jawabat muhazab andaz main raqam farmaiyay, aur bara e meherbani nazaiba alfaaz kay chunao say guraiz kijiyay.
Taking a birds eye view on both the parties’ reveals, one talking about spirituality the other only and only advertising ahlay-bait. I bear witness to Allah, that I have never seen any shia talking about spiritual aspects of a religion or something for the betterment of the mankind which leads peace, harmony and moral upbringing of a society. All their talks revolves around Ahlay-bait agenda.
Ok, I am willing to follow ahly-bait, tell me how can this devotion bring me nearness to Allah. How can asking Ali(ra), raise my spiritual esteem. How can cursing Sahaba can earn me sawab-points. Why should I not get guidance from Allah and His Book, and ask ahl-e-bait to guide me, for allah has said repeatedly, … , BOW IN FRONT OF HIM, SEEK GUIDANCE FROM HIM AND ASK HIM FOR ANY HELP
HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THE EXISTENCE OF ALLAH WITH YOUR AHLAY-BAIT CULTNESS?
Like RD&G quoted; "He is the first [nothing is before Him], the Last [nothing is after Him], the Most High [nothing is above Him], and the Most Near [nothing is nearer then Him]. And He has full knowledge of all things." (57:3) Are u sure there is something more nearer than Allah? Are u sure there is something more knowledgeable than Allah?
And there is no PROTECTOR or HELPER for you besides ALLAH.[2:108]
TELL ME WHY SHOULD I ASK ALI TO HELP ME? IS MY ALLAH NOT SUFFICIENT?
I once went to a funeral of my friends father (Jacob Lines, Karachi). In his house I saw two statues, anyone entering or leaving the room, must spit on them and mumble some words which one can hardly hear. .. my curiosity ended up when someone ask me to do the same, reluctantly I proceed, the guy in front of me whispered, lanatullah elayhay umar, lanatullah hay abu bakar, spitted on the statues and moved on. On seeing that I turned my feet and never went there.
I really don’t hate Shias, but they are sowing the seeds of their detestation with their own hands. If asked with their sincere hearts, they amount of hatred they carry for those sahaba, hardly parallel with the love they carry for their ahly-bait.
It so sad to see that you people like to play with Allah and Rasool like they are just dolls and toys.
astaghfayrullah hay rabbi min qullay zambiyun wa’tu bo elay hay.
PS: Shair30 / Humble Fox, if you don’t have etiquettes to communicate with feminine humans, then please go learn them first atleast from your Ahlay-bait. Learn to respect others before you try to pull your thread up for your prepaid publicity. Who cares what you say. You have lost your credibility.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 23, 2000).]
jazakallah RD&G.
I hope they will answer them first before opening another thread.
We all except the same and nothing less.
rare,
baat suno, we dont wanna prove anything because u are ignorant and you will never accept anything as you have shown. keep travelling towards hell alongwith malaoon umar, abubakr, usman, yazid and muawiya. good luck!
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malaoon tha, malaoon hay aur malaoon rahey ga wo omar bin khattab jisney dukhtare rasool (bibi fatima) per darwaza giraya. jahannum raseed hay wo umar jis sey dukhtare rasool naraz then. bar umer lanat, baishumar!
[This message has been edited by shair30 (edited October 23, 2000).]
Shair aka Humble, dont make excuses and try to run away from the escape door.
IF YOU THINK ITS THE RIGHT PATH THEN YOU MUST HAVE TO PROVE YOUR SIDE.
may be there are some, who can benifit from your arguments and can be saved from Hell Fire. Why for the sake of RARE you are considering this issue as hot patatos.
what did you say zalim? i am sorry i am hard of hearing. by the way welcome to gupshup, first time seeing you here buddy. dekho, i am only telling the truth and unwrapping the facts, if it hurts your yazeedi khoon running in your vessels, i am sorry buddy.
ali ka manney wala kissee shey sey naheen darta!
meree aadat hay, jaisay ko taisa. samjhay
samjhay
[This message has been edited by shair30 (edited October 23, 2000).]
Looking at shair30 language views and language I am ashamed that I ever replied or read his posts. I want to know views of other shias in this matter. There was once a person called Humble who was caught lying and having 3 different usernames and was banned. if u r the same person then u r not even worth noticing.
No one with a decent upbringing can go so low. I pray that Allah guide u.