Hazrat Ali Dead? I dont think so!

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Some time back I started A topic called Happy 13th Rajab which was to Greet all the muslims!

Now lets get to the point Watcher stated that Hazrat Ali was Dead!
Which is not true Hazrat Ali is Shaheed and a Shaheed is never dead(if you follow the Quran) and A Shaheed is Always Alive!

So the point is Hazrat Ali is not Dead that makes him able to Intercade with Allah for us so when we say “Ya Ali Madad” Hazrat Ali Asks god if he could help us cause he is Alive and can help us(so can any other Shaheed)

May Allah Guide all of you!

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zabardast!!!

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masha allah

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To Desert fox and the guy who thinks the above argument was zabardast,Do u guys think it is possible for the Ayaats of the Quran to be contradictory to each other?Also do you think that the word of the Quran is supreme,i.e. not to be argued with?

P.S.I only wish to discuss things in a logical manner,so I may impart some knowledge and perhaps gain some.So do not bother to give a hot-headed reply.

[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited October 22, 2000).]

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I think there are so many threads open right now all of which discuss essentially the same thing. It will help us all if all of them are consolidated in one so that folks can post their responses at one place.

GFQ, mods, anyone.... can you consolidate all these same topics together?

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[quote]
Originally posted by Desert fox:
**Some time back I started A topic called Happy 13th
Now lets get to the point Watcher stated that Hazrat Ali was Dead!
Which is not true Hazrat Ali is Shaheed and a Shaheed is never dead(if you follow the Quran) and A Shaheed is Always Alive!Rajab which was to Greet all the muslims!

So the point is Hazrat Ali is not Dead that makes him able to Intercade with Allah for us so when we say "Ya Ali Madad" Hazrat Ali Asks god if he could help us cause he is Alive and can help us(so can any other Shaheed)

May Allah Guide all of you!

**
[/quote]

I dont think you interpretation is right. But i will present my argument after reading the verse of Quran and then answer you with some references.

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1 ::: *“Hazrat Ali is Shaheed and a Shaheed is never dead”*

Anyone who pass away in the cause of Islam is not considered DEAD, so Hadhrat Ali’s(ra) murder, who was a great Shahabi and a remarkable Khalifa, cannot be considered as simple death. He is indeed Shaheed.

2 ::: *“when we say "Ya Ali Madad" Hazrat Ali Asks god if he could help us cause he is Alive and can help us.”*

Do you not know that Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and that besides ALLAH you have NO guardian OR helper? [2:108]

.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 23, 2000).]

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Astaqfirrullah. Seeing the ignorence of these people make me very angry. May Allah show them right path, the PATH OF QURAN AND MOHAMMAD!!!

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These are the people who go ahead and worship graves and make ordinary imams their gods and prophets.

May allah put those people HELL who corrupt the religion of Islam and make and invent their own beliefs. Ameen.

Desert Fox, you are clearly in ignorence and in off-show of your stupidity. COME TO QURAN and come to QURAN and the sunnah of MOHAMMAD.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

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**Astagfirullah

Oh, Allah guide me and others to the Right Path and Save us from Shirk because Indeed You have said that you shall forgive every minor or major sin if you wishes so,but will never forgive Shirk.**

And verily the reults are decided by the LAST ACTIONS.
(reported by Bukhari)

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3::: *A Question for Shias*

What about Imam Hussain? Why you guys not ask him for help? After all he is also among Ahl-e-Bait and Shaheed as well.

.

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Watcher when will you get it that Hazrat Ali Is A Ahle-Bayt! And a Ahle-Bayt is NOOR(light)And no muslim calls Imams thier prophets or gods(when will you come out of your ignorance)

lets talk about Shaheed!

You scream Quran, Quran, Quran and you can’t even Quote from it that makes me

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lets see you quote from Quran where it says Dont ask for any man(living)help!!Coz Hazrat Ali is Alive! And what do you know about the power (that Allah has Given him/her)of a shaheed

Sura Bakara 2:154
And do not speak of those who are slain in Allahs way as Dead. NO they are alive but you do not Percive!

Percive means ;to achive understanding of or Apprehend!

So my friend you nor me has any knowledge of A Shaheed!

more?

Sura Ale-Imran(if you read this sura your arrogance will come out and the NOOR of Allah will fill you and then we will see who was stupid)3:169
And do not reckon those who are slain in the way of Allah to be Dead. NO.They are Alive with the lord and reciving from the lord!

Quran? Tou Got Quran!
Watcher, You are moving far away from Quran!
First go to your own post about the Dead human stuff(astagfirrullah)

You are one of those who are mentioned in

Sura Bakra 2:7
Allah has sealed thier hearts and thier hearing, and thier is a covering over thier eyes, and for them is a great punishment!

In your post you will find about the Ahle-bayt! They are the light Allah sent down to bring people like you from darkness to light, am i wrong?

[This message has been edited by Lollypop (edited October 23, 2000).]

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I think u got it spot on sister Lollypop!
good on u

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What’s the obsession you all have by associating everyone with Allah (Astaghfirullah). Is it something new in Fashion?

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Shaheeds are indeed considered alive. They are alive in heavens above. They are not there to communicate between Allah and His people (Nauzobillah). Allah doesn’t need any helper.

Posted by Lollypop:
when will you get it that Hazrat Ali Is A Ahle-Bayt! And a Ahle-Bayt is NOOR(light

Hmm interesting…and is Hazrat Ayesha (PBUH) not from Ahl e bait? She was the Prophet SAW’s wife right. And among his beloved. Was Hazrat Umer (PBUH) not a member of the Ahl e bait, since he was the Prophet SAW’s father in law. And how about Hazrat Abu Bakr (PBUH), another father in law. What about Hazrat Usman (PBUH), two of Prophet SAW’s daughters had been married to him and two of Hazrat Fatima (PBUH)'s real sisters…are these folks not members of Ahl e Bait?

The guts you folks have to twist Islam to suit your ideas and liking! What kind of a belief you have where Hazrat Ali (PBUH) is the only member of Ahl e Bait visible to you and everyone else is blacked out?

Posted by LollyPop:
Sura Bakara 2:154
And do not speak of those who are slain in Allahs way as Dead. NO they are alive but you do not Percive!

It surely states that Shaheeds are alive, but where does it say it’s okay to ask them for help?

Posted by LollyPop:
3:169
And do not reckon those who are slain in the way of Allah to be Dead. NO.They are Alive with the lord and reciving from the lord!

That proves that Shaheeds should not be called “dead,” but where does it say it’s allowed to ask them for help, or that they play a convincing role in acceptance of duas?

Posted by LollyPop:
*
Sura Bakra 2:7
Allah has sealed thier hearts and thier hearing, and thier is a covering over thier eyes, and for them is a great punishment!*

Indeed Sumum, bukmum, umyun fahum la yar jai’oon. Indeed it’s ironic that ayat was quoted here.

Allah is the creator, the Planner and Sustainer of the entire Universe. None has the right to be worshipped or associated with him. His knowledge extends above and beyond all seen, unseen, present, futer, near and far.

“Say: ‘He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Eternal. Absolute; He begets not, nor is he begotten; and there is none equal or comparable to Him’” (112:1-4)

“There is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.” (42:11)

“He is the first [nothing is before Him], the Last [nothing is after Him], the Most High [nothing is above Him], and the Most Near [nothing is nearer then Him]. And He has full knowledge of all things.” (57:3)

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And if your aqeedah calls asking “Shaheeds” for help, then why not ask Hazrat Umer (PBUH) and Hazrat Usman (PBUH) also? The last time I read they were Shaheeds…

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Why Hazrat Ali (PBUH) in particular? If you are choosing Hazrat Ali (PBUH) cuz he was from ahl e bait..so are these other two folks…why is one repected and others cornered?

[This message has been edited by Rarediamonds & Gold (edited October 23, 2000).]

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rare,
when you dont have a clue about history, just dont buzz. Hazrat Ayesha was not ahlebait. Hazrat Umer and Hazrat Usman were not martyred. got it.

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nara ali ali ka lagatey huay chalo
zehnon mein inqilab jagatey huey chalo

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Salaam All,

I think the point is being missed here.

It is good we are all referring to Quran here, as there is nothing else that we ALL agree upon 100%

Consider the following ayat:

[2:154]
154. And say not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah, “They are dead.” Nay, they are living, but you perceive (it) not.

It is clear that the Shaheed are not not dead. Only Allah knows best.

**[2:107]
107. Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper. **

In response to this ayat, can we not conclude then that Allah has no Wali?

[2:163]
163. And your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God - Allah), La ilaha illa Huwa (there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He), the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

Can someone quote me an ayat which says that I can ask a prophet or a sahaba for help?

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Also, I have never seen the word ‘Ahl-bayt’ in the Quran. Someone please explain this to me.

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The Ahlul Bayt or household of the Prophet Muhammad - peace be upon him and his household [pbuh] - refers to his daughter Fatima al-Zahra, his successor and son-in-law, Imam Ali, their two sons Imam Hasan and Imam Husayn, and the nine Imams from the lineage of Imam Husayn, peace be upon them all.

The Holy Qur'an

Regarding them, Allah (God), the most Glorified and High, says in the Holy Qur'an:

**
"... Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying..."
[Source: The Holy Qur'an, translated by M. H. Shakir, Chapter 33, verse 33]

**
shair.

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Muhammad [pbuh], the Prophet of Islam

The Prophet of Islam [peace upon him and his household], in the well-attested tradition called Hadith al-Thaqalayn said:

**
Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al­Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al­Kawthar on the Judgement's Day).
[Source: Please see Hadith al-Thaqalayn: A Study of its Tawatur]

**

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Salaamz Shair and thanks for the info.

Could you show the whole ayat in future - referring to your first ayat of the Quran:

[33:32]
32. O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.

[33:33]
33. And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove Ar-Rijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification.

These ayat refer to the prophets wives

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Pardon my ignorance, but what siginficance do the ahl-bait have in the Quran? What i’m trying to get at is that our aim in life is to please Allah and obtain paradise.

How can the ahl-bait help us do this?

P.s. lets keep this clean and not a shia/sunni slanging match!!

Use the prophets example. How would he speak during a discussion about Islam?

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Momineens and muslimeens come alive!

Shair30 has started his own version of history today.

Posted by Shair30:
Hazrat Ayesha was not ahlebait. Hazrat Umer and Hazrat Usman were not martyred. got it.

Hazrat Umer (PBUH) and Hazrat Usman (PBUH) were shaheeds. Just the way Hazrat Ali (PBUH) embraced Shahdat. Who r u to deny their shahadat? All three caliphs were shaheeds. Your discovery is so "different" I am sure it will stir all muslims. Since your historical facts are not in place, I don't expect a reasonable argument from you.

Posted by Shair30:
"... Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying..."
[Source: The Holy Qur'an, translated by M. H. Shakir, Chapter 33, verse 33]

And exactly where in Quran does it say that Ahl e Bait only consists of Hazrat Fatima (PBUH), Hazrat Ali (PBUH) and their children (PBUT)? The term Ahl e Bait means "Ghar walay." So are you trying to imply that the Prophet SAW didn't have any house of his own, except for that of his daughter's?

Posted by Cooldude:
Can someone quote me an ayat which says that I can ask a prophet or a sahaba for help?

Cooldude, one is not to ask anyone for help other than Allah. You will not find any ayah suporting asking a Prophet or a Sahaba for help, cuz that practice doesn't exist in Islam. However, Prophets deliver Allah's message to His people. And sahabas (Prophet Muhmmad SAW's) friends and followers have showed that everyone can follow the word of Allah. They were folks who stood by the Prophet SAW through thick and thin, through ups and downs, through times of happiness and agony. They are in no way, any where near being deservant of our criticism. Who are we to criticize such great, respectable among the finest of Allah's men? Tell me how many Abu Bakrs, Umers, Usmans, Alis....(PBUT) and so on are there in today's muslim Ummah?