Have Muslims made a mockery of Islam?

[psyah]

Re: Have Muslims made a mockery of Islam?

@krash

We seem to be going in circles here. So, let me summarize.

We both seem to agree that,

1. Killing of Apostates is NOT allowed.
2. Islamic society should discourage apostasy among its members.

However, the disagreement seems to be on the details of point #2.
I am saying that this discouragement should not involve any coercion, only peaceful persuasion, and maximum punishment should be ostracism.

You, on the other hand, seem to argue for some sort of physical restraint and punishment. I am especially referring to your post #16, where you say,

*“If she influences other to convert then it is more serious and she should be put on trial to swear an oath to remain silent in her faith
She should be given the option to leave the country if she wants to converts others
If she continues to undermine the country and Islam by spreading either hatred falsehood about Islam and/or her new faith, then that would be treason … And treason is usually met with a death penalty, by the courts alone”
*
I also believe that arguments that are presented against killing of apostates are also valid against any level of physical coercion because they ultimately appeal to God-given free will in humans. They reason they mention killing is because that is the position they were confronting.

Lastly, I would like to ask you a simple question.
Would you support a law in any country of the world today that criminalizes apostasy?

Peace krash

So we are in agreement that we are both arguing against the idea of “killing of apostates”. The link you provided has many references supporting the idea of resisting apostasy however …

That is what I am arguing for … Only when that apostasy turns into something more sinister such as undermining of the religion then it should be taken more seriously and treated like a case of treason.

Now the severity of the discouragment is under the microscope … and this is where I need to further explain things …

A family may ostracise their loved one if the loved one changes faith. And if the faith is secure with the person then it should not matter to the person about how their family treats them. If a person becomes Muslim they are encouraged to treat their non-Muslim parents and siblings with respect and honour even if they have been disowned by them. The reverse may or may not be the case, but I’m sure there are individual cases where mutual respect does take place.

No if all of this is done discretely then there is no reason to raise a hoo haa over it, but if it becomes public knowledge then it will cause “fitnah” and to mitigate this a judicial process has to be undertaken. Finding the reasons of conversion and giving the opportunity to convert back should be offered. The death penalty acts as a means to ward people away from trying to compromise the Islamic framework. If people are given permission to freely criticise Islam then other people who feel hard done by this will resort to bloodshed, because they will have their values compromised. And it is far worse to have fassad from an openly critical society than it is to have a conservative society that prevents such things at the source.

The death penalty maintains “peace” in most instances … It sounds weird but that is the case. If you ask the majority of UK citizens they want to reintroduce capital punishment, they believe we are tipping to much towards leniency and have started to make things harder on the law abiders. Funny Islam was criticised for being too liberal by ultra-conservatives and too conservative by ultra-liberals …

The fact is … it is Divinely perfect … where it displeases both the ultra varieties but optimises the conditions for all …