Hating those Hindus

Nadia_H · July 21, 2004, 10:49am

Ammi was telling me this kahani a couple days back. This was around 1965 during the war against India. When they were younger and living in then east-Pakistan, Chittagong (yes, Bangladesh, Maddy ), there was this fierce hatred against Hindus. It was very strange to hear my Ammi talking about this because she is, now, a very tolerant person. It’s so strange how propaganda works through a society @ multiple levels, indoctrinating hatred. This is true of ANY society, whether it is Pakistan or Canada; lest anyone forget, up until relatively recently, Canada had an official immigration policy that specifically barred Jews from entering the country. “No Jew is one too many” was a famous quote attributed to a racist Cdn governmental official.

Anyways, so Ammi was telling me that back then, when she was around 8 or 9, with her elder sister and younger brother, the three of them would collect small rocks and go to this small factory/mill that was located in Chittagong. It was owned by a Hindu. Most of the workers, though not all i presume, were also Hindus. The roof of the factory was made of tin; they’d collect the rocks and throw them on the roof which would make an awful clattering sound. Just to piss off the Hindus who were working inside. The poor owner of the mill would come out screaming at them, then all of them would hide, and repeat it later.

Societies/govts can demonize one group in such a manner… it’s absolutely heart breaking. i am so grateful to my parents that they didn’t deliberately pass on their hatred of ANY group on to us…i didn’t even know about some Muslim sects until i registered on gupshup. It’s weird and sad how people, as a collective group, get demonized - and especially how otherwise rational individuals completely absorb that ideology. It’s so ‘different’ to hear her talk about how hated Hindus were and how much she herself hated them - i guess you would have had to live at that time period (during the war) to really appreciate how people buy into these societal/mob sentiments.

system · July 21, 2004, 11:58am

Yes, one must live in the Nazi era to uderstand why jews were baked as pies...or in the 7th century in Persia, why Parsis were ethnically cleansed or Gujarat recently, why muslim girls were raped and killed. Once we can assign rationalized sentiments like "mob mentality..." "during that time"....

MyStiCaL_MisS · July 21, 2004, 2:41pm

Imagine the future generation in the west who are growing up to hate muslims.. seeing muslims as terrorists..

Nadia you should watch 'Clay bird', its a bengali movie.. shows the pak bengal war..

edit: sp

mAd_ScIeNtIsT · July 21, 2004, 2:42pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
Nadia you should 'Clay bird', its a bengali movie.. shows the pak bengal war..
[/QUOTE]

On a propaganda scale of 1-10, what does it score?

MyStiCaL_MisS · July 21, 2004, 2:43pm

Lol, against pakistanis 10/10.
:k:

kabir · July 23, 2004, 3:58pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Yes, one must live in the Nazi era to uderstand why jews were baked as pies...or in the 7th century in Persia, why Parsis were ethnically cleansed or Gujarat recently, why muslim girls were raped and killed. Once we can assign rationalized sentiments like "mob mentality..." "during that time"....
[/QUOTE]

yes my friend im in complete agreement with you but i would like to add here that mob mentality is something that can be understood by what if the state with all its might turns into a mob?

ghuLail · July 23, 2004, 4:04pm

phir to BRREEEEEE garbar ho jatee ho gee na?

fair_balance · July 23, 2004, 5:36pm

Nadia,

Very good thread . I think this is a big problem with Muslims when they live in minority. There are always scared of their Identity and feel insecure and that is one reason these things happen. Feeling that we are the best and true religion also make things worst. I did have same kinda issues growing up in India.

My friends would grab me during Holi and pour colors on me. This was their way of celebrating Holi and this was all done because we were good friends. THis used to make my mother mad. She would lecture me based on some Hadith that I was a sinner and will burn in hell.
Another incident that happened few years back... One of my best friend's father came to visit me andI got up from my sofa and did Namashkar putting both my hands together ( As it is done in Hindu/ culture). One of my Muslim neighbour who was sitting next to me didnt like it. And when the guest left he was lecturing me again that It was UnIslamic to say Namaskar as if I was worshipping that Gentleman( as if If Saying Salam could have made my neighbor happy).
I always thought about these incidents and only explanation I could get was that it was because of insecurity of losing one's identity and hence effort to distinguish themselved with Hindus.

Ofcourse in both the cases I knew thatthey were wrong and it didnt effect me at all.
There are many other intresting incidents .I will post it later.

kaka_in_usa · July 30, 2004, 1:35am

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
Nadia,

Very good thread . I think this is a big problem with Muslims when they live in minority. There are always scared of their Identity and feel insecure and that is one reason these things happen. Feeling that we are the best and true religion also make things worst. I did have same kinda issues growing up in India.

My friends would grab me during Holi and pour colors on me. This was their way of celebrating Holi and this was all done because we were good friends. THis used to make my mother mad. She would lecture me based on some Hadith that I was a sinner and will burn in hell.
Another incident that happened few years back... One of my best friend's father came to visit me andI got up from my sofa and did Namashkar putting both my hands together ( As it is done in Hindu/ culture). One of my Muslim neighbour who was sitting next to me didnt like it. And when the guest left he was lecturing me again that It was UnIslamic to say Namaskar as if I was worshipping that Gentleman( as if If Saying Salam could have made my neighbor happy).
I always thought about these incidents and only explanation I could get was that it was because of insecurity of losing one's identity and hence effort to distinguish themselved with Hindus.

Ofcourse in both the cases I knew thatthey were wrong and it didnt effect me at all.
There are many other intresting incidents .I will post it later.
[/QUOTE]

F&B, thats an intresting experience. I am an indian too. and we all have different religion but we have common culture and no body can deny it. I am from a mixed religion family, and i respect them all. i greet them in their way and i feel proud of it. i am proud that i am attached to so many different religions.
saying sasriyakal to punjabi, nameste to hindu, salam to muslim doesnt make us any low, infact it makes you feel proud of yourself.

If you want to know what religion do i belong to, then i have only one answer "Indian". Its my home, my identity, my god and my mother.

ped(tree) wohi jhukhta hai jis ke pas fal (fruits) ho doosro ko dene ke liye. sookha ped kabhi nahi jukhta hai.

Code_Red · July 30, 2004, 12:53pm

fair_&_balance

How dare you said namastay to a hindu ???
your will not only burn in hell fire but first you should be cut in pieces to and sprinkled with garam masala to make nice tikka botti

Jai ram ji ki :Pagri:

Rekhta hai jiska naam, sab jantay hain log
saarey jahaan main dhoom hamari zubaan ki hai

Arvind · July 31, 2004, 12:37pm

F & B,

I am surprised that you mother was so against Hindus. From your posts that is not at all the parental influence that I would have surmised. I came from a devout Hindu family and both my parents used to actually point out other faiths (muslims and christians) as exmples of following one's faith when we heard morning baang or watched christians scurry to their churches on Sunday mornings. You certainly have grown a lot.

As for tolerance towards muslims, that was never an issue in our family. A good quarter of father's customers were muslims. So we didn't have the luxory of running down their faith. This proves my point that I have made in other threads that the best way to learn to be tolerant of somene else's faith is to do business with him. If only Pakistani guppies who incessantly denigrate Hinduism were in some business relationsship with some Hindus and were making oodels of money from it, I gurantee you their hatred of Hindus would evaporate. I distinctly rememebr muslims customers of my father referred to the sacs full of money they brought to him for investment as Laxmi. Half the Diwali gifts we got were from muslims. So according to many guppies, all these guys are burning in hell right now?

Hatred of another's faith, in GS as out , comes from being ignorant and none so ignorant as those who don't even know that they are ignorant.

fair_balance · July 31, 2004, 4:01pm

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Arvind: *
F & B,

I am surprised that you mother was so against Hindus. From your posts that is not at all the parental influence that I would have surmised. I came from a devout Hindu family and both my parents used to actually point out other faiths (muslims and christians) as exmples of following one's faith when we heard morning baang or watched christians scurry to their churches on Sunday mornings. You certainly have grown a lot.

As for tolerance towards muslims, that was never an issue in our family. A good quarter of father's customers were muslims. So we didn't have the luxory of running down their faith. This proves my point that I have made in other threads that the best way to learn to be tolerant of somene else's faith is to do business with him. If only Pakistani guppies who incessantly denigrate Hinduism were in some business relationsship with some Hindus and were making oodels of money from it, I gurantee you their hatred of Hindus would evaporate. I distinctly rememebr muslims customers of my father referred to the sacs full of money they brought to him for investment as Laxmi. Half the Diwali gifts we got were from muslims. So according to many guppies, all these guys are burning in hell right now?

Hatred of another's faith, in GS as out , comes from being ignorant and none so ignorant as those who don't even know that they are ignorant.
[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. I would simply say interacting with others helps you understand and business is one good form of interaction. Just spending time with one another forces you to break those sterotypes . Regarding my mother,She was notagainstHindus ..She honestly believed that playing with colors will make me sinner :D ( some mullah or mulli told her) and I will burn in hell and thus was protecting her son. She was always very compassionate and respectful to my Hindu friends and neighbours.

Naadir · July 31, 2004, 4:45pm

Re: Hating those Hindus

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Anyways, so Ammi was telling me that back then, when she was around 8 or 9, with her elder sister and younger brother, the three of them would collect small rocks and go to this small factory/mill that was located in Chittagong. It was owned by a Hindu. Most of the workers, though not all i presume, were also Hindus. The roof of the factory was made of tin; they'd collect the rocks and throw them on the roof which would make an awful clattering sound. Just to piss off the Hindus who were working inside. The poor owner of the mill would come out screaming at them, then all of them would hide, and repeat it later.
[/QUOTE]

This reminds me of my grandmother (may Allah have mercy on her) telling me how Hindus were usually shopkeepers in our village and if any of the Muslim kids wanted a free snack they would take cow bones/skeleton to the Hindu shopkeepers and threaten to throw them in the shop if the Hindu didn’t give them some free sweets, of course they got an ass whipping from their moms later on if the Hindu complained.

Naadir · July 31, 2004, 4:47pm

From what I hear from my grandparents Muslims and Hindus got on with each other quite well in our village (probably because Muslims were the head of the village and in power) there was no major problems.

One thing is Hindus considered Muslims maleech and Muslims considered Hindus naapaak, they both knew this and just accepted it, if they ate paapaRs from the same plate they would make sure not to touch more than the one they were eating, so as not to dirty the rest for the others, sometimes, if they drank water from the same glass they would pour it into their mouth without touching their lips to the glass. If they gave each other food as a present they would add “eat it, don’t throw it away, we didn’t make it ourselves we bought it from the so and so (Hindu or Muslim) from the bazaar”.

If people respect my faith I will respect there’s, if they disrespect mine I will disrespect there’s or just curse them (depending on mood) but I wont take part in it for example saying Namastey (I bow/pray to the divine within you) Astaghferullah this is a statement of polytheism (shirk), I don’t fancy committing a sin which Allah will never forgive if I die upon it without repentance, same with celebrating Holi, Divali, Dashera, Raksha Bandhan, Christmas etc. these are Kaafir religious holidays and in our religion we are considered from amongst those who we imitate (in matters of Deen). Those who followed the religion of Abraham :as: before the advent of the last version of Islam never took part in pagan Arab festivals and they were later replaces with our own two Festivals, Muslims have traditions and customs of their own, Islam is our culture.

There’s no room for it in my religion, if someone wants to call that narrow mindedness or insecurity then so be it, I do feel anxious about the future, we have to guard our Deen, Islam (as a religion) khatrey mein nahein hai lekin hamaara personal Islam aur Imam khatrey mein ho sakta hai if we’re not careful.

fair_balance · July 31, 2004, 5:07pm

So..Naadir,

I guess how would you great your Non-Muslim friends since you cant say Salaam to them?

Also.. You seriously think that participating in others relegion's festivities is not allowed.What should one do if He is invited by his non-muslim friends to their festivals. Be a moron and refuse them saying that my religion says that "You are kaafir and I shouldnot interact with you"..By the way would you mind sharing some hadith on your fatwa?

By the way..Looking at your examples..seems like your parenst lived with Hindu some 50 years back and you are judging people based on that experience.

metal_crzy · February 15, 2005, 6:26am

Re: Hating those Hindus

f&b

about the namaskar thing ....well i will tell you this ....just because you said namaskar does not neccesarily mean that you are bowing to the person ......in hinduism its just a way to greet poeple when they come over......i am very suprised that your neighbor said this ....in a very general way its another way of saying hello in hindi also "namaste"....i mean it would have been a diff case if some1 says "jai ram ji ki" (not so common ne more but is still used when saying bye) but i dont think just couse you say namaskar, namaste should be a topic for some1 to lecture you on....but thats just me and everyone is different oh well....very englighting and rare thread ....
thnkz for sharing your experience f&b really appreciated it .....

system · February 15, 2005, 8:32pm

Re: Hating those Hindus

Old Wounds

ASHOK JETHANANDANI, Feb 14, 2005
The family had gathered in my aunt’s living room in Mumbai after her daughter’s wedding. Eventually, the topic of discussion turned to Hindu-Muslim relations, as it often does in India.

Why can’t we have the same personal laws for all? Political parties pander to Muslims because they vote in a block. Ninety percent of Muslims are not patriotic. In cricket test matches they cheer the Pakistani team. I had heard the same arguments in other Hindu living rooms before.

A Hindu woman is not safe in a Muslim neighborhood while Muslim women can wander freely in Hindu areas. As the lone dissenter, I countered that if I were a Muslim in India I would not feel safe. After the mayhem in Gujarat I could not trust that the police, state machinery, and elected officials would act to ensure my safety.

I don’t understand how Hindus, being part of an 80-percent majority, can feel insecure in their own land. This insecurity is engineered by politicians who manipulate people’s fears for the sake of votes, I argued.

The debate became heated, with both inflexible sides disagreeing louder but not listening.

Their religion teaches violence against kafirs, non-Muslims. You never know when even a Muslim friend might turn against you. Is that your personal experience, I asked? I thought about the few Muslims in my life—my high school history teacher, classmates in school and college, friends in the Bay Area—people I trust implicitly.

You have never lived in a Muslim-majority area; I have. There was an edge in my uncle’s voice. In our small town in Sindh we were the last Hindu family in the neighborhood after Partition; the rest had already fled across the new border to India. There were daily attacks on Hindus. That was unfortunate, but at that time, there were similar attacks on Muslims in the Hindu-dominated areas of India, I pointed out.

One day, from our terrace, we saw a Hindu man hacked to death in the street below. We children and the women of the house rushed indoors—the men were out at work—and bolted the doors. We armed ourselves, even my two little sisters, with kitchen knives, ready to defend ourselves against the mob.

Then I saw the anger in my uncle’s red eyes and knew I had crossed a line. I listened. The rage in his voice ran through me and for a moment the trauma of his childhood became mine. In the hushed silence that followed I understood how old wounds sometimes don’t heal, and how the trauma gets passed on to the next generation.

Chachaji, I wanted to say, I empathize with your pain, but don’t want to be a prisoner of the past. I am ready to close that chapter and move ahead.

Raangbaaz · February 16, 2005, 12:12pm

Re: Hating those Hindus

That’s the biggest propoganda on india’s part.They made muslims believe(especially in india)that we come from different religions but share the same culture.For muslims, Islam is not merely a religion but complete way of life.In common muslim life, Islam define the culture not country.Other religions like sikhism and jainism share the similar cultutre with hinduism becuse of their affinity to hindu dharm but not muslims

system · February 16, 2005, 1:38pm

Re: Hating those Hindus

<>

Every religion prescribes that...it is more a guide than a manual.

AQ · February 17, 2005, 3:26am

Re: Hating those Hindus

In which other religion Laws of Lands are religiously prescribed? many other religion followers hate to mix religion in state.