Malik, you are ABSOLUTELY right. We all hate Muslims. Now, the sooner we realize that we hate Muslims, and you will teach us, get organized, and start an Armageddon to get this pissing contest over with, better off the world will be.
[This message has been edited by schopenhauer (edited March 01, 2001).]
Thank you for being so honest. I never doubted the level of your pathological hatred for Muslims.
But then I again I also didn’t underestimate your inability to comprehend the logical and FACTUAL details of history. You never disappoint.)
Don’t worry I will be back…
Malik: Apparently you are not bright enough to recognize sarcasm when you see it. Why am I not surprised. WE should purge the stupid ones from our soil. Perhaps the anti-terrorist law of UK is the first step. US and Canada should invoke similar laws. Groundwork for these lawas has already begun.
[This message has been edited by schopenhauer (edited March 01, 2001).]
Yes, sarcasm the lowest form of wit don’t they call it?
“Sarcasm” is probably your way of hiding your total ignorance in all matters religious, historical and political regarding Islam and other faiths..
Next time you make any comment on religion, and particularly Islam, I suggest you read a few books on history and politics first. That will save you from being exposed in more ways than one.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Malik73 (edited March 01, 2001).]
we will purge you off our lands first. You can preach all you want to from some shanty in Pakistan and beg for PL480 food donation.
Surah Fatihah
---Guide us to the Straight Path...(the path) of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not the path of those who have earned Your anger, nor those who have gone astray
ameen
schopenhauer<--above is what keeps me a muslim and you a non-muslim
Anarkali:
Tell that to your terrorist brothren. I don't give a damn about that highfaluckial BS from people who have purged and prosecuted minorities for milliniums and are still engaging in international terrorism.
I agree with Malik. WE are stupid. Whay else would we not only allow terrorists to emigrate to our countries but also permit them to spew hate against us from our soils. We should follow the example of the Taliban and their Pakistani supporters and destroy what does not fit our believes.
You people are achieving one thing, helping the rest of us get organized. Keep up the good work and keep drawing lines in sand for that's waht you would be sucking.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by schopenhauer:
**Anarkali:
WE are stupid.
need I say anything?.. u said it all....
I wouldn't worry about the terrorists/jehadis/martyrs whatever.......
All these clowns want to establish this so called Khalifa with the strict interpretation of their religion. I want that to happen. I want Pakistan to become like Afghanistan. I want to see what they think when their wives,sisters others are forced to quit school. When their scientific, cultural, historical knowledge base is eroded to accomodate the religious perspective.
I am going to hear replies about the great Caliphates of yester years with tremendous achievements, in this and that. While all of that may be true, they were not based around the current environment. Plus they were more cultural achievements and co-incided with advances made by the chinese and europeans. That legacy, showed outward looking islamic regimes. NOT fanatical religious movements. These movements have always lost because they are inherently against Human behavior and instinct. Everyone keeps harping on the distinguishing qualities of Islam. But all they end up mentioning is what is conventional wisdom. Everyone knows what is morally right or wrong, murder, adultery..they are all wrong. These are not religious virtues. A religion should try to teach morality not impose it with unbending laws. Human beings are different, our moralities are different. Religion should guide us by being a beacon not a punisher.
Islamic books can be the most kinder and peaceful. Ground realities say something else. Muslims are credited more for Muslim killings. Rest of the world has entered 21st century, where as most of the Islamic states are willing to remain somewhere in 16th century.
People just laugh at all such things, and you think that they hate you or your religion.
[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
** Religion should guide us by being a beacon not a punisher.**
[/quote]
misinformed about Islam?....or you just dont want to be informed?
Allah is NOT A PUNISHER...humans are His creation, made out of love....the Quran has guidelines that Allah wants his humans to follow on earth...its love which is why He sent prophets on this earth to help his human race....and it is love for His creation that this earth still exists
and by saying ...live life in an afghani way of living...is that a THREAT? ...i dont want to compare other religions on THEIR VIEWS TOWARDS WOMEN, (ESP HINDUISM) so i shall keep my mouth shut
JEHADIS---fight to preserve Islam , not fight wars to forcefully covnert ppl (ring a bell?
blessed are those who dont see yet still believe...
[This message has been edited by isloo_ki_anarkali (edited March 03, 2001).]
schopenhour said:
“Tell that to your terrorist brothren.”
I suggest you check this thread out and have a dose of FACTS right at your face:
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum25/HTML/000502.html
Allah says in Quran that non-muslims will detest you and your religon(islam) until you do what they do and accept their religion over yours.
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited March 03, 2001).]
I have always wondered why t/ KKK, & Shiv Senha etc. who boldly support violence & terrorism in t/ name of religious survival have never been called "fanatics", nor do they get t/ same negative media attention as compared to Islam. Why doesn't t/ media give KKK equal (if not more) hype as they do in regards to Islam & it's folowers. After all t/ KKK also claims they are following true Christianity!
We have good & bad "people" in every race, religion & country. Christians have their KKK, Hindus have thr Shiv Senha, & Islam unfortunately has those which propogate violence against Shias & Sunnis. This is in no way encouraged nor authorized in Islam. Please don't blame Islam for t/ ignorance of a few rotten apples, just as we can't go around calling "KKK" & it's members true Christians. Mr. Party pooer along w/ others have tried to xplain you, so I won't add anything further to it. However, you do surprise us w/ your hatred towrds us. And pls don't say that you're just returning t/ feeling. I'm talking about majority of us normal everyday Muslims.
George Washington was a terrorist to the British. Who controls the media can call whoever they want whatever they want. Its pretty simple. The only problem that the west finds is that Muslims are willing to stand for their belives unlike the rest who are slowly becoming atheists. Here in uni almost all non-jewish goras I know dont believe in god or say "He might be there". Imagine that, once they die, standing in front of God and saying that you might exsist.
The muslims progressed when they obsereved Islam. The western countries progressed when they left christianity.
The muslims progressed when they obsereved Islam. The western countries progressed when they left christianity.**
[/QUOTE]
Yeah we can all see the fruits of the advances made by the muslims. Fighting everywhere with everyone, including other muslims, economic conditions and lifestyles nearing levels of plague ridden Europe, tolenrance for others, contribution to the world community in negative proportions. This is too funny. Helluva, progress!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by Infoman:
Yeah we can all see the fruits of the advances made by the muslims. Fighting everywhere with everyone, including other muslims, economic conditions and lifestyles nearing levels of plague ridden Europe, tolenrance for others, contribution to the world community in negative proportions. This is too funny. Helluva, progress!!!**
[/quote]
I am disgusted by your ignorance about Islam and Muslims.
Let me point of some things:
Islam was the light in this world when much of Europe was in dark ages and in ruines. Muslim scientists in all fields, chemistry, mathematics, Astronomy, Geography, Philosophy, Physics, Optics, Medicine, and many many more were making advances when rest of the world was in total ignorance. Just to point out some renowed scholars and scientists of islam who contributed so much to current areas of studies, such as chemistry, mathematics, madicine, etc. etc.
Just to name a few:
Jabir Ibn Haiyan (Geber)- Chemistry (Father of Chemistry)
Al-Khwarizmi (Algorizm)- Mathematics, Astronomy, Geography. (Algorithm, Algebra, calculus)
Ibn Ishaq Al-Kindi (Alkindus)- Philosophy, Physics, Optics, Medicine, Mathematics, Metallurgy.
Al-Battani (Albategnius)- Astronomy, mathematics, Trigonometry.
...many, many more.
Don't you feel stupid to have a name "infoman" when you have none? You need to get out of your hate-cage against Muslims and look at the world like it is.
*George Sarton's Tribute to Muslim Scientists in the *"Introduction to the History of Science," **I
"It will suffice here to evoke a few glorious names without contemporary equivalents in the West: Jabir ibn Haiyan, al-Kindi, al-Khwarizmi, al-Fargani, al-Razi, Thabit ibn Qurra, al-Battani, Hunain ibn Ishaq, al-Farabi, Ibrahim ibn Sinan, al-Masudi, al-Tabari, Abul Wafa, 'Ali ibn Abbas, Abul Qasim, Ibn al-Jazzar, al-Biruni, Ibn Sina, Ibn Yunus, al-Kashi, Ibn al-Haitham, 'Ali Ibn 'Isa al-Ghazali, al-zarqab, Omar Khayyam. A magnificent array of names which it would not be difficult to extend. If anyone tells you that the Middle Ages were scientifically sterile, just quote these men to him, all of whom flourished within a short period, 750 to 1100 A.D."
John William Draper in the *"Intellectual Development of Europe"*
"I have to deplore the systematic manner in which the literature of Europe has continued to put out of sight our obligations to the Muhammadans. Surely they cannot be much longer hidden. Injustice founded on religious rancour and national conceit cannot be perpetuated forever. The Arab has left his intellectual impress on Europe. He has indelibly written it on the heavens as any one may see who reads the names of the stars on a common celestial globe."
I am afraid, if I continue you would not last that long. Please stop twisting the facts according to your desires and the excessive hate you have for Muslims due to your vast ignorance about them.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited March 03, 2001).]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
** I am disgusted by your ignorance about Islam and Muslims.
Let me point of some things:
Islam was the light in this world when much of Europe was in dark ages and in ruines. Muslim scientists in all fields, chemistry, mathematics, Astronomy, Geography, Philosophy, Physics, Optics, Medicine, and many many more were making advances when rest of the world was in total ignorance. Just to point out some renowed scholars and scientists of islam who contributed so much to current areas of studies, such as chemistry, mathematics, madicine, etc. etc.
Don't you feel stupid to have a name "infoman" when you have none? You need to get out of your hate-cage against Muslims and look at the world like it is.
I have no misgivings about the prowess of Islam. The point is that these WERE.... not are the virtues of islam. These were extroverted regimes that contributed to preserving knowledge from the past, not destroy it like the goons like taliban. I hold the religous extremists in hinduism and christianity in the same low regard. Tell me what contribution they are making to knowledge preservation, society and cultural augmentation by blowing up ancient statues?
Before you attack me you need to OPEN your eyes. Proclaiming youself as THE WATCHER, Blindman!!! Puhleeze!!
[This message has been edited by Infoman (edited March 04, 2001).]
Ahh...
The muslims were progressing when they were following Islam... That is a fact...
Before, all there was an Islamic State, mainlly the Ottoman Empire. It was ultimately destroyed by the British in 1924, after the WWI.
Now, after colonolisation, we are fighting each other. The brits did a good jjob of creating Hot spots, mainly Kashmir, Palestine and so on. They divided a people based on natilnality. This concept was not there before. Racisim is in the rise, the same stage it was before Islam.
People stopped following the good things about Islam and have started following the bad things about the west.
I truly believe that it is because of us leaving Islam that we are in a situation we are now.
What the taliban are doing is not Islamic but an act of retaliation against the world which has so convinently isolated them. That country needs the most help because it just came out of 30 years of war. But what the hell, no one cares right.
Only those progress who are united, have a good economic situation, have support and so on. No muslim country are in that position.
Islamic extreamists... I have a question for you, if Islam says something that you don agree with, would you tell us not to follow it or make us change our religion. It is our fundamental right to follow our religion.
In that case if you dont like, tough luck, because Islam is not going to change for no one. It is too well documented for greay areas.
It is because of the completeness that people follow Islam the way no other religion in the world. I saw this book on the most influential people on in the world. The 1st was Mohammed (saw). 2nd was Newton and so on....
We will follow islam because we belive that it is RIGHT no matter how much u think that it is bad, evil, violent and so on...
Islam requires that you believe in all of it and not part of it. The reason why the christians left it was that the church modified it so much that to follow it completely was almost suicide. There were conflict between the people and the church. And that lead to the seperation between the church and the state. In Islamic Empires with all the discoveries there were no conflicts as such. And the islamic institution was taken out of the politics forcibly by the brits in Turkey. Now the position in turkey is that if a women wears a head scarf she is not allowed to go to university. A guy has a beard he is arrested. That is how they are keeping Islam away. But slowly in Pakistan it is coming back...Like the recent riba decision of the supreme court. I hope that Islam does come back to Pakistan but at the same time I dont want groups like Jamate Islami or Jamate Uleme Pakistan, all these guys are hypocrites.
“Infoman,” I apologiz if you feel like I was attacking you. Those were not my intentions, I guess the wording was a bit harsh, please accept my high-level of sorries.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
Tell me something since you mentioned blowing-up of statue in your reply:
You ask: What are extremist like taliban contributing to the world other than blowing up historical statues? Tell me something: What is that statue contributing to the world or Afganistan for that matter?
You need to and you should look at Islam as regards to its teachings in Quran and way of Mohammad; not what an extremist group is doing in “their” country. True that it is “claming” to be doing that on the name of Islam, but you shouldn’t believe that. If you continue to be western propoganda reverer, and look at islam like they tell you to with extreme ignorance and hate, I don’t think it will do you any good.
Take it easy my friend.
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
Watcher, No grand apologies are needed. I guess we all feel strongly about our POV’s.
To your question about the value provided by these statues. Throughout, history icons, buildings shrines, be they religious, cultural our practical hold a special place in our hearts. Whether it be the Bamiyan Buddhas, the Carvings in Khujaraho or the Sistine chapel. They are not only religious icons, but a legacy of the human race. If the ottoman empire had ruled Rome, I doubt highly that they would have destroyed Michaelangelos work on the sistine chapel. Because, it is a thing of beauty and describes the historical perspective of the architechture and art at that time. These Buddha’s are unique carving because of the carving techniques of the “AFGHANIS” during that time and the sheer scale of the statues. Their imposing size when looking around at the surrounding must give an awesome feel. While ISlam may not prescribe it’s buildings to be architectural masterpieces, they certainly are. The mosques in 'Irsafan"(sp) are true architectural wonders of scale and color. The islamic carvings on tiles left by the Moors in Seville, spain at the Alcazar provide a vibrant color perpective to the normally drab Christian castle. I would be enraged if the Spaniards ever tried to destroy those tiles and mirrorred inlays in their effort to erase their cultural and historical past. They would be denying their past.
These are all human treasures, they are religious, cultural and artistic. As a community we are enraged, not as Hindu, muslim, or buddhist. Nothing can justify these actions.