Happy 13th Rajab!!

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41

[quote]
Originally posted by shair30:
Then Imam Ali (a.s) recited surah-e-mominoon right after opening his eyes (one of many miracles of Imam Ali a.s), narrated abu huraira.
[/quote]

Shair bro.

I will like to know more about this.

Also, only last week, I read some deregatory remarks about Abu Huraira (RA), by another shia on this forum. So I thought shias do not consider ahadith and narrations referenced to Abu Huraira as correct. Is it true?

Also, I forgot to thank you for all the wonderful material you provided in the thread "Khutab-e-Zainab in the darbar...". I knew all those events, and was amazed at the similarity between what you said and the version I had read in some other books (by sunni authors). Alhamdollilah.

Ciao!

42

Jazakallah brother pristine. Your feedback has always been productive and positive. I also agree that most of the Islamic historyevents covered in sunni and shia groups are pretty similar. I also like your research approach because you always come with an open mind and try to seek the truth and research about what “actually happened” instead of what people say.

Here is another good link that will clear up several things regarding Islamic history:
www.al-islam.org/guided

Wassalam,
Shair.

43

ghareeb o sada o rangeeñ hay dastane haram
nihayat uskee hussein ibdita hay ismaeel

iqbal.

44

asghar ko dafn karkey dahaktee zameen mein
maula hussein deen ka poda laga gaey

shair-e-ahlebait.

45

kaun kehta hay key maut aaee to marjaon ga
mein to darya hoon samandar mein uter jaoon ga

shair

46

[quote]
Originally posted by shair30:
**After his birth, its been narrated that Hazrat Ali (a.s) did not open his eyes for a while and his parents Hazrat Abu Talib and mother were both worried, but when Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) came inside kaaba to congradulate Imam Ali's birth and when Prophet (s.a.w.w) took the new born baby (Imam Ali) in his lap, only then the baby opened his eyes and saw Prophet(s.a.w.w)'s face and smiled.

Then Imam Ali (a.s) recited surah-e-mominoon right after opening his eyes (one of many miracles of Imam Ali a.s), narrated abu huraira.**
[/quote]

Shair...You got me stumped here! Believe me, I am not joking. I have been thinking about what you had said for some days now. Tell me... I always thought that Hazrat Ali was a child (around 7 years old) when the Prophet (PBUH) had his first wahi (age 40). Hazrat Ali (RA) was the first child to embrace Islam.

Now based on what you are saying, Hazrat Ali RA recited Surah-e-Mominoon (which has 118 verses) several years before our Prophet (PBUH) had his first wahi!!! Can you pls tell me what am I missing here?

Also, if you read Surah-e-Momenoon you will notice that both Both its style and theme indicate that it was revealed during the middle stage of Prophethood at Makkah. Reading between the lines, one feels that a bitter conflict had begun between the, Holy Prophet and the disbelievers of Makkah, though the persecution by them had not yet become tyrannical. It appears that the surah was sent down during the climax of the "Famine" in Makkah (vv. 75-76), which according to authentic traditions occurred during the middle stage of Prophethood.

Can you please explain yourself? Thanks!

47

Sure brother pristine,
appreciate you asking. Yes Hazrat Ali (a.s) recited surah-e-mominoon, the initial ayats only, not the whole surah at the time he was born inside kaaba. Even his parents were surprised. No doubt that quran was revealed (wahi) on Prophet (s.a.w.w) quite some time after his birth, but its one of the many miracles of Hazrat Ali (a.s) to recite quran at the time of his birth. Being born inside kaba is itself a big distinction itself.

Regards,
Shair.

48

PLEASSSEEE…Ignore my ignorence…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Who are the 12 Imams?..Like I know the 4 califs but not the 12 Imams…

And why are they called Imams…

Again I say…This just for MY knowledge NOT an ARGUMENT

ME ME ME!!!
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49

its ok brother,
Here is the link that summarizes the names and lives of twelve imams, bibi syyeda (prophet’s daughter) and Prophet Moahammed (s.a.w.w). These fourteen combined together are called the 14 masooms (infallibles). Here is the link:
http://www.shia.org/infallibles.htm

Regards,
Shair.

50

[quote]
Originally posted by shair30:
**Sure brother pristine,
appreciate you asking. Yes Hazrat Ali (a.s) recited surah-e-mominoon, the initial ayats only, not the whole surah at the time he was born inside kaaba. Even his parents were surprised. No doubt that quran was revealed (wahi) on Prophet (s.a.w.w) quite some time after his birth, but its one of the many miracles of Hazrat Ali (a.s) to recite quran at the time of his birth. Being born inside kaba is itself a big distinction itself.

Regards,
Shair.**
[/quote]

Shair, much as I respect you and I have no wish to offend you, I researched this incidence from many islamic texts and scholars.

I can accept that Hazrat Ali (RA) was the only baby to be born in Ka'aba. The fact that Hazrat Ali (RA) was born in Kaaba is not disputed, as even in Sunni books, Hazrat Ali (RA) is sometimes referred to as 'Maulud-e-Kaaba' (meaning one who was born in Kaaba).

Quran mentions that one of the miracles of Hazrat Issa (RA) was that he talked in his crib. You suggest that Hazrat Ali (RA) also talked in his crib, or even right after his birth. If true, I can accept that as a miracle.

But if someone says that a revelation (Sura Mominoon) was recited by someone BEFORE it was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH), then it transforms the whole thing. It basically means that someone is giving the status of prophethood to Hazrat Ali (RA). It implies that Allah Tallah revealed the verses of Sura Mominoon to Hazrat Ali (RA) 10 years BEFORE these were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) thus infering that Hazrat Ali (RA) was a prophet BEFORE Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Unfortunately I can not accept it. It goes against all the confirmed instances of Islamic history and this is a status which even Hazrat Ali (RA) never proclaimed for himself (which I am aware of).

I have tried to recheck this incidence from MANY scholars in the last few days and each and everyone said that they had never heard of it or read it in any authentic book on Islamic history.

You also mentioned that this incidence was narrated by Abu Huraira (RA). While I have great respect for all sahaba of our Prophet (PBUH), including Abu Huraira (RA); I had noticed that some shia participants in this forum expressed grave doubts on the truthfulness of Abu Huraira (RA). I, therefore, find it particularly curious that such a fantastic miracle (if it happened) is narrated by Abu Huraira (RA)?

I hope you are not offended by above, and I am continuing my efforts to further research this.

What other miracles are associated with Hazrat Ali (RA) ?

Adios!

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 19, 2000).]

51

salam brother pristine,
there are sevral miracles associated with imam ali and i will certainly discuss those in detail later. regarding him reciting quran at the time of his birth, he was ** not a prophet**. he was only waliallah (friend and lover of Allah) and recited quran as mentioned in several narrations. I totally respect your opinion and there is no force to accept anything in Islam. Therefore chill.

your brother,
shair.

52

Name - Muhammad

Title - Al-Mahdi, Sahib-ul-Asr, Al-Hujjat, Al-Qa’im

Kunyat - Abul Qasim

Born - Friday 15th of Shaban 255 A.H., at Samarra

Father’s Name - Imam Hasan-al-Askari

Mother’s Name - Nargis Khatoon

Died - Still living but in hiding and will appear before the Day of Judgement to establish justice on earth.

Taken from Know Your Islam by Yousuf N. Lalljee

…

Isnt this yeah 1400 something AH???

This makes this imam 1100 something years old.

can someone clarify this again…

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53

i appreciate you inquiring brother who me.

The occultation of Imam Mehdi is very similar to that of Hazrat Essa. They are both taken to sfae places by Allah and will come back to initiate the revolution against world's evil and bad (batil) forces, Insha-Allah soon. May Allah gives us both to fight along with them. We can ask the same question about hazrat essa. He was saved by Allah almighty long before Imam Mehdi (a.s). How old is Essa now? Allah is almighty and has power to do anything as mentioned "kun fa yakoon". He will keep both pious personalities safe and will send them among us to destroy evil forces, Insha-Allah.

yours,
shair.

54

Whoaahh!!!

You mean…(Ignore my Ignorance)…that there is another person along with hazrat Issa(AS)…any Quranic or Hadith refrences???

Now this is one thing I refuse to believe…without any SOLID proof…

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55

where is the proof about esa living now in quran? ayat number?surah number? exact wording proving that he is still alive brother?

just asking, you can ignore my ignorance too

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56

errr…I dont know…

…I thought it was in Quran…

So is Imam Mehdi a Khalifa? Rasool? Prophet??

I mean what sets him apart…is there any evidence in quran that there will be someone like him after Prophet Mohammed (SA)

ME ME ME!!!
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57

Imam Mehdi is ** NOT a rasool or prophet**. Accepting him as a ** rasool or prophet will destroy aqeeda-e-khatm-e-nabuwwat and make one kafir because nubawwat and khatm-e-nabuwwat is a part of religion**

It is a fundamental part of shia faith in Islam that ** Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) was and is the last prophet and anybody denying that aqeeda is not a muslim, therefore, shias consider qadeeanis, ahmadees as non muslims**

There is a whole bunch of ayats in quran proving the concept of Imamat which is not and I repeat not prophethood, prophethood ended at Mohammed (s.a.w.w).

If you have some time brother who me, you can check these links and they can clarify some things about the concept of Imamat and need of Imamat. To summarize, an Imam is nothing more than a leader who can elaborate and clarify things in quran . He is just like an intrepreter of quran who has command over messages of Allah conveyed in quran. The responsibilty of Imam starts after Prophets give the message.

Check these links brother:
http://al-islam.org/peshawar/last.html
http://www.shia.org/mehdi.html
http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/index.html

your brother,
shair.

58

Congratulation to all muslims on 13th Rajab. I am been reading your views about different things and I really appreciate the way you put things on this forum, you are one of those who realize it is not the day only for Shia's, it is for everybody. And by the way brother watcher, I also appreciate whatu want to know if you do for learning or gaining something, maybe everybody started getting you negatively, I am not sure why because its not been long since I am on this forum. I will only say there are lots of things we do what our prophet (pbuh) did not do in his life. He even did not read the quran how we are reading in a book shape. We are suppose to do good deeds and we will be responsible for our good and bad. That is the most important thing. Apart from that we should use common sense what is hurting to others and what is not, what can harm other human being. Try not to be always argumental. I hope you don't get offensive with it. We all love Hazrat Ali and I a sure Allah will be please if we do any celebration for him and if we cook any food and give it to poor people as it happens in Pakistan specially, then what is wrong with it? It is love and u can show your love the way you like. It is not shirk and Iam sure it is not a sin either. Thanks for reading and I hope no harm done. Again thanks to the brothers and sisters who try to clarify things and please don't waste your time in arguments.

59

003.055
And when Allah said: O Isa, I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

The Arabic word used is “Mutawafica”, which has the haqeeqi meaning (in classical Arabic) “to take back”. So for those who understand Quranic Arabic, it will be clear that Jesus didn’t die.

Whether he will come back?
This is accepted by muslims through a hadith of the Prophet (PBUH). I don’t know if shia brothers accept this hadith, but here it is

Sunan Abu Dawud (Also available in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)

Book 37, Number 4310:
Narrated AbuHurayrah (RA):

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.

…and Allah knows Best.

It is advised that these matters are not argued as these relate to matters of belief. I am just presenting my belief based on the above-mentioned evidence. If someone else believes differently that is fine by me.

Re: Imam Mehdi (RA)… in my opinion the sunni version is entirely similar to shia version, presented above. If there is any difference, I am not aware of it at this point.

Assalam O Alaikum!

60

shair… and all those who want to know more about the status of Jesus and the truth behind crucifixion, please check out this link:

http://www.islam-qa.com/QA/1|Basic_Tenets_of_Faith(Aqeedah)/Al-Eamaan(Belief)/al-Eemaan_bi’l-Rusul_(Belief_in_the_Messengers)/Did_Jesus_come_back_down_to_earth_after_he_was_taken_u p_or_not.27041999.3221.shtml

Adios!