Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
I don't think men will have a chance to be pervy/distracted on the day of judgement based on what I've read about that day. Yet, we'll be ordered to bow our heads and lower our gaze until Hazrat Fatimah (ra) has passed the bridge siraat. Why? Is it because she's dear to Prophet saw and Allah swt and she deserves the respect or because she's not equal to men or that men will be distracted or whatever? I'd like to think all muslim women are protected by Allah swt in this way. No, our darjah isn't anywhere near Hazrat Fatimah's which is why there won't be seventy thousand hur-ul-in accompanying us on the day of judgement, which is why no one's going to be bowing their heads and lowering their gaze for us... but we still do have some bit of darjah, we have been granted a certain status. Women should focus on this and the example of Hazrat Fatimah who happens to be the leader of women in Jannah, and not speculate over these unnecessary issues.
You gave an example and then refuted it yourself. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but your Darjah isn't anywhere near high enough for me (or any other male on this planet) to bow their heads in respect when you pass.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Woh tu kehty hian ke hadees hai kisi aurat ko hukamran bhi nahi bana sakty tu kitny salon tak Benazeer ko wazeery azam baney rakha mulk ki tab imankhatrey main nahi pera sab ka:confused:
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
I have a simple question. So for 1400 years the entire Muslim world was wrong till today? Is that what you are really saying?
Secondly the hadis stating that women can not lead men in prayers is stronger and has more authenticity.
The hadis quoted one is done out of context. Secondly the Tarabi school of thought or jurisprudence is defunct. It hasn't existed for more than 1000 years.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
So you do agree with what I said about Muslim men being so easily distracted (in theory)?
I say “in theory” because I don’t think they really are so easily distracted, but this issue of distraction comes up so often in Islamic discussions that you would think that Muslim men have a serious ADHD.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Ignorance indeed is bliss. Woman can lead women in prayers. Women can not lead a mixed gender namaz. Its pretty simple really.
The ijma' is that women can't lead mixed gender prayers, it does not negate the fact that ulema have debated over this issue centuries ago, that's all the shaykh is saying, and if some people are okay with it they have a basis for it based on those hadith, it's not legal according to the majority but there is an opinion.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
So you do agree with what I said about Muslim men being so easily distracted (in theory)?
I say "in theory" because I don't think they really are so easily distracted, but this issue of distraction comes up so often in Islamic discussions that you would think that Muslim men have a serious ADHD.
Why wouldn't I agree that men are easily distracted? Koi zyada shareef mard hazraat nahin dikhte Pakistan mein mujhe.
But the point of my post was to say that this isn't always the sole reason for Allah swt's orders for women. Baaki Allah knows best, feel free to disagree.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
It sbetter to ignore such people instead of givign 15 minutes of fame they yearn for.
He doesn't need 15 minutes of fame, what he said has been taken out of context, he didn't make it permissible, it's a shame that most muslims here don't know him otherwise they could've understood his position.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
The ijma' is that women can't lead mixed gender prayers, it does not negate the fact that ulema have debated over this issue centuries ago, that's all the shaykh is saying, and if some people are okay with it they have a basis for it based on those hadith, it's not legal according to the majority but there is an opinion.
It's as simple as that.
There is a hadis saying women can not lead mixed gender namaz. End of discussion. You either believe in the word of the Holy Prophet (SAW) or you don't. There is no grey area.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
There is a hadis saying women can not lead mixed gender namaz. End of discussion. You either believe in the word of the Holy Prophet (SAW) or you don't. There is no grey area.
CM was there with the Prophet SAW of course so he knows best.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Why wouldn't I agree that men are easily distracted? Koi zyada shareef mard hazraat nahin dikhte Pakistan mein mujhe.
Mjhe Pakistan ke bahir b nai dikhe. That doesn't mean though that they are horny 24/7 and ready to jump a woman as soon as they see her as some Mullahs certainly imply.
I agree with your other example, but as you yourself pointed out, the things that apply to Hazrat Fatima don't apply to women today.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
There is a hadis saying women can not lead mixed gender namaz. End of discussion. You either believe in the word of the Holy Prophet (SAW) or you don't. There is no grey area.
Have you studied all the ahadith regarding this issue? More likely, no.
There are several conflicting ahadith, for example, on one occasion women weren't allowed to visit the graves but later on according to other ahadith they were.
The ijma's opinion take preference over one hadith that's why it's illegal for women to lead a prayer but ijma can also be changed according to the times and society, that's the beauty of Islam.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Its a simple question. Do you consider the Hadis stating that women can not lead mixed prayers valid and true? Yes or no.
Yes, but I'm in no position to give a fatwa so I wouldn't condemn a woman for leading a prayer, likewise I wouldn't condemn a woman for not covering her hair.
