Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

The question here is should we declare those women kafir who are leading prayers right now in USA etc?

The debate isn't about whether women are or aren't allowed to lead a prayer.

What Sh. Hamza said was in context to the incident of women imam in USA.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

What would that achieve? :confused:

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

The follow up question is that whether the woman imam is leading prayers out of ignorance or out of rebelliousness?

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

and then the next question following it would be: incase if the leading of prayers by a woman isn't permissible in Islam then would those people's namaz be valid or would any jamaat for a particular farz namaz be considered valid or void?

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Anyway, who disagree that there is zero place for a woman to lead a prayer can read this article with all the references etc. It might sound alien to us all but what’s been written down in the books hundred of years ago cannot be dismissed solely based on our limited knowledge.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

And I have a different question... whose words would you trust with regards to the answers to these questions?

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

We all know what majority of ulema and awam in Ind-pak believe regarding woman going out without his mehram...so whose words would you follow then?

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Defend the favorite molvi…no matter what…:rolleyes:

PS..the question is exactly this…as in the title “Permissible for women to lead men in prayer”

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Peace All

I think some are confusing here:

  • whether it is preferred for woman to lead a prayer over a man

with

  • whether it is permissible for a woman to lead men in prayer

Also, some people are mixing up:

whether that woman who leads the prayer is given special dispensation on an occasion or limit

with

whether that woman who has been given the permission can therefore assume duties for leading all prayers thereafter

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's words should not be taken out of context ... His key intent is to rethink Islam by going back to the earliest scriptures and discourses in order to bring about a way that can continue making Islam prevail. He acknowledges that the age we live in is about equal rights and he wants to show how Islam does have a bearing on this ... but more importantly he wants us to stop finger pointing ... he realises that many forms of Muslims will surface and there are significant interpretations out there - but we should still be tolerant.

The conditions when a woman can lead are quite limited according to the opinions out there ... he was merely quoting the opinions of some very conservative scholars to impress a point. That we should stop judging people.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

I'll look up to the few sane, more learned muslims I know in my life and that includes you, psyah, Mirch, Niks, TLK bhai etc.

I'm going to bed now, will read this thread tomorrow and decide on who I'm going with :D

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Hareem, quick question. If it was indeed written down in the books hundred of years ago, why was it never practiced? Can we give a little benefit of doubt of the collective wisdom of all the scholars from last 1500 years than Sh. Hamza or whoever thinks that its permissible

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Eating dog meat is also allowed in Islam (it's makrooh not haram) but how many muslims do you know who eat dog meat? :)

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

hmmmmm…Leading prayer vs food…good comparison :k:

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Ewwwwwww...

No it cannot me halal .. show me.

I know that lizards are halal though

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

It's not haram either...at least in maliki fiqh dog meat is makrooh not haram. You can search any Islamic site, I don't need to show you.

Btw, lizards and prawns are makrooh in Hanafi fiqh, not halal.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

Can a male immam lead prayer of gay men?? it could be very distracting too..

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

This hadees is presented by those who say a woman can lead prayer of mixed gathering . Dr. Amina Wadud used this hadees in her fatwa to allow a woman Imam for mixed gathering an created a lot of uproar.
Narrated Umm Waraqah bint Nawfal From Sunan Abu Dawood

Found in: Prayer (Kitab Al-Salat)
Hadith no: 591
Narrated: Umm Waraqah bint Nawfal
When the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) proceeded for the Battle of Badr, I said to him: Apostle of Allah allow me to accompany you in the battle. I shall act as a nurse for patients. It is possible that Allah might bestow martyrdom upon me. He said: Stay at your home. Allah, the Almighty , will bestow martyrdom upon you. The narrator said: Hence she was called martyr. She read the Qur’an. She sought permission from the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) to have a mu’adhdhin in her house. He, therefore, permitted her (to do so). She announced that her slave and slave-girl would be free after her death. One night they went to her and strangled her with a sheet of cloth until she died, and they ran away. Next day Umar announced among the people, “Anyone who has knowledge about them, or has seen them, should bring them (to him).” Umar (after their arrest) ordered (to crucify them) and they were crucified. This was the first crucifixion at Medina.

Then there are scholars on the other side who have put all their effort to work to prove that this is a weak hadees,
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/women_imam.htm

With regard to women leading congregations of women, however, several hadith report that two of Holy Prophet(SAW) wives, Aisha and Umm Salamah, did so, and as a result most madhhabs support this. According to Qaradawi:

The hadith of `A’ishah and Umm Salamah (may Allah be pleased with them). `Abdur-Raziq (5086), Ad-Daraqutni (1/404) and Al-Bayhaqi (3/131) reported from the narration of Abu Hazim Maysarah ibn Habib from Ra’itah Al-Hanafiyyah from `A’ishah that she led women in Prayer and stood among them in an obligatory Prayer. Moreover, Ibn Abi Shaybah (2/89) reported from the chain of narrators of Ibn Abi Layla from `Ata’ that `A’ishah used to say the Adhan, the Iqamah, and lead women in Prayer while standing among them in the same row. Al-Hakim also reported the same hadith from the chain of narrators of Layth Ibn Abi Sulaim from `Ata’, and the wording of the hadith mentioned here is Al-Hakim’s.

Furthermore, Ash-Shafi`i (315), Ibn Abi Shaybah (88/2) and `Abdur-Raziq (5082) reported from two chains of narrators that report the narration of `Ammar Ad-Dahni in which he stated that a woman from his tribe named Hujayrah narrated that Umm Salamh used to lead women in Prayer while standing among them in the same row.

The wording of `Abdur-Raziq for the same hadith is as follows: “Umm Salamah led us (women) in the `Asr Prayer and stood among us (in the same row).”

In addition, Al-Hafiz said in Ad-Dirayah (1/169), “Muhammad ibn Al-Husain reported from the narration of Ibrahim An-Nakh`i that `A’ishah used to lead women in Prayer during the month of Ramadan while standing among them in the same row.

Further, `Abdur-Raziq reported (5083) from the narration of Ibrahim ibn Muhammad from Dawud ibn Al-Husain from `Ikrimah from Ibn `Abbas that the latter said, “A woman can lead women in Prayer while standing between them.”

All of the hadiths state that the given woman leads the other women in prayers while standing among them in the same row, and not standing on the first row of the prayers as imams do. They further state that they were among only women, not male worshippers.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

I have a simple question. So for 1400 years the entire Muslim world was wrong till today? Is that what you are really saying?

Secondly the hadis stating that women can not lead men in prayers is stronger and has more authenticity.

The hadis quoted one is done out of context. Secondly the Tarabi school of thought or jurisprudence is defunct. It hasn't existed for more than 1000 years.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

It sbetter to ignore such people instead of givign 15 minutes of fame they yearn for.

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Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer

As I said earlier, a temporary replacement will not be very difficult. Aur jin logon ke zehn itnay ganday hon gay ke replacement imam ko dekhte hi periods ke baray mein sochnay lagaain, unka waisay hi kuch nai ho sakta.