Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Bring out the camels guys, cut off your electricity, break your TV, PC, Fridge etc and buy caves. Turns out we are to do things EXACTLY like they did 1400 years ago.
Yeah also stop using algebra in school and use the number zero. Forget chess and all the rest created during rule of Muslims.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Narrated through Jabir Ibn Abdullah:** "A woman may not lead a man in Prayer, **nor may a Bedouin lead a believer of the Muhajirun or a corrupt person lead a committed Muslim in Prayer."
WHAT? I doubt a Hadess with such open discrimination when the Prophet PBUH himself was so fair and just.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Yeah also stop using algebra in school and use the number zero. Forget chess and all the rest created during rule of Muslims.
Yes, that too.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Muslim men sure are easily distracted.
I don't think it's *just *Muslim men.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
I don't think it's *just *Muslim men.
You can hardly blame me for singling out Muslim man when there is constant talk of them getting distracted by the mere sight of anything approaching to a female.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
nonmuslim asking a question, just wondering, but if a woman is fully practicing hijab, would that hijabi still really distract the men behind her while leading prayers. isn't that the whole reason she does her part in practicing hijab to cover those body parts that might cause distraction?
the men aren't doing their part in practicing hijab if they get distracted even when the woman is a hijabi, right? their minds should be on offering namaaz and on Allah. just asking because i might have it wrong but the question came to mind, why is it still considered improper?
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Shaykh Hamza said this in one of his lectures…let me find it on yt.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
nonmuslim asking a question, just wondering, but if a woman is fully practicing hijab, would that hijabi still really distract the men behind her while leading prayers. isn't that the whole reason she does her part in practicing hijab to cover those body parts that might cause distraction?
the men aren't doing their part in practicing hijab if they get distracted even when the woman is a hijabi, right? just asking because i might have it wrong but the question came to mind, why is it still considered improper?
Your question is not valid Nisha, because apparently, a Muslim man can be distracted by the merest evidence of the presence of a woman in his vicinity. It doesn't matter even if she's wearing the Afghani Burqa because mostly (yes, not always :p) a burqa is worn by a woman and how can a righteous Muslim not be distracted by the fact that the creature he beholds is a woman?!
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
How can a woman be Imam of a masjid? What happens on the days she has her period, or when she delivers a baby and is gone for 40 days? So why does she NEED to lead the prayers. It's a privilege...nothing about who's more powerful. It's just the way it is.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
A simple question. For 1400 years the Muslim world has believed that women can not lead men in prayers. The Holy Prophet nor any of the Sahaba followed a woman in prayer. Not even when Hazart Aisha led the rest of the Sahaba in prayers. So I guess all that history is wrong but we are right today.
And when we are right we are right by misquoting a hadis on its wording and nature. We opening ignore intent to fit our needs. Not only that we do so quoting a Jurist school of thought that died out nearly 1000 if not more years ago.
More importantly nobody during those 1400 years ever thought hey....we are not following the words of the Holy Prophet.
Right. Stop reading Dan Brown novels.
and what do you find wrong in Sh. Hamza's statement?
" When I studied the prayer issue, I was so stuck by the fact that not only was it debated early on, but there were multiple opinions. Imam Tabari considered it permissible for women to lead the prayer if they were more qualified than men – to lead men in prayer. Ibn Taymiyah himself permitted women to lead men in prayer if they were illiterate and she was literate. He just said that she should lead from the back because she might distract the men if she was leading from the front. Ibn Taymiyeh! Permitting a woman to lead men in prayer!"
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
or when she delivers a baby and is gone for 40 days?
Same as what happens when a working woman has a baby. I'm sure the company doesn't close down.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
How can a woman be Imam of a masjid? What happens on the days she has her period, or when she delivers a baby and is gone for 40 days? So why does she NEED to lead the prayers. It's a privilege...nothing about who's more powerful. It's just the way it is.
Sh. Hamza only said that like many other issues this one is debatable too, he's not encouraging women to lead prayers, he's only telling a fact that in certain conditions women might lead a prayer and hence you can't declare her kafir for that.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
IceSoul, there isn't a compulsion for women to lead prayers. It wouldn't lessen our importance if we didn't. The job of an Imam is different than that of an IT professional.
Hareem, what you said makes sense.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
IceSoul, there isn't a compulsion for women to lead prayers. It wouldn't lessen our importance if we didn't. The job of an Imam is different than that of an IT professional.
No compulsion in jobs either. I was merely illustrating the point that an temporary replacement can be found.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
True.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Don't know how true is this but from what I have heard from scholars about having a female leading the prayers as an Imam at a mosque state the following reasons the first one being what Gaia mentioned about causing distraction. Secondly what would explain her absence to the strangers or non-mehram in prayers when she is having her menstrual period. It is something very personal and that would mean announcing that the leading prayer Imama is on a period break.
Not that I agree or disagree with the topic at hand, but a period isn't that big a deal. It's not a national secret that must be guarded, yes its personal and it doesn't have to be explicitly stated....but neither is it a hushhush thing...i think.
However, would it be acceptable for a woman to lead prayer from the back, IF she had the most knowledge of Islam within that community?
But how would one prove that she had the most knowledge of Islam in teh community?
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
^if she knows more verses by heart, this is the easiest method to measure her ability.
there are other conditions as well but this is one of the most important one as far as i know.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
What if it is allowed ?
what happens when she is having periods ..
*
O jee, aaj zahida khala namaz parhaa'ain gee kyun ke imam sahiba ko pat'tiyaan lagee hui hain, aaho*
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
How can a woman be Imam of a masjid? What happens on the days she has her period, or when she delivers a baby and is gone for 40 days? So why does she NEED to lead the prayers. It's a privilege...nothing about who's more powerful. It's just the way it is.
Exactly. Why does there need to be a gender competition in every single thing?
Your question is not valid Nisha, because apparently, a Muslim man can be distracted by the merest evidence of the presence of a woman in his vicinity. It doesn't matter even if she's wearing the Afghani Burqa because mostly (yes, not always :p) a burqa is worn by a woman and how can a righteous Muslim not be distracted by the fact that the creature he beholds is a woman?!
I don't think men will have a chance to be pervy/distracted on the day of judgement based on what I've read about that day. Yet, we'll be ordered to bow our heads and lower our gaze until Hazrat Fatimah (ra) has passed the bridge siraat. Why? Is it because she's dear to Prophet saw and Allah swt and she deserves the respect or because she's not equal to men or that men will be distracted or whatever? I'd like to think all muslim women are protected by Allah swt in this way. No, our darjah isn't anywhere near Hazrat Fatimah's which is why there won't be seventy thousand hur-ul-in accompanying us on the day of judgement, which is why no one's going to be bowing their heads and lowering their gaze for us... but we still do have some bit of darjah, we have been granted a certain status. Women should focus on this and the example of Hazrat Fatimah who happens to be the leader of women in Jannah, and not speculate over these unnecessary issues.
Re: Hamza Yusuf: Permissible For Women To Lead Men In Prayer
Not that I agree or disagree with the topic at hand, but a period isn't that big a deal. It's not a national secret that must be guarded, yes its personal and it doesn't have to be explicitly stated....but neither is it a hushhush thing...i think.
But how would one prove that she had the most knowledge of Islam in teh community?
not a hush-hush thing, true. But it's not something that needs to be announced each month. I don't agree or disagree either on this topic ..but just wondering this does make a kind of valid argument.