Hamid Gul passes away

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

I think what the culture says or what gets done in the culture is not more important than what is right and what is wrong.

Would you also apply the above logic to OBL, Mullah Umar, Malik Ishaq?

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

It's fine to be standing up for your country, blah blah blah. But it's not fine to mess with Islam, manipulate it, and create stinging bees that live on to destroy all of us in the future.

What love for Islam and Pakistan?? Over 50 K Pakistani civilians dead in suicide bombings alone by the groups and mentality he created.

He created an alternative religion, called it Islam, and told people that this is actually Islam. I don't know what worse dupes anyone can pull on a people.

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Whats imran khan view on zia? @ post 39

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کہا جا رہا ہے گل جی پاکستان ویران کر گئے.... کہنے والے یہ بھول گئے گل جی کتنے قبرستان آباد کر گئے ہیں.

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

it all depends Nikema jee....

First, i believe (and based on the reaction on this thread majority of guppies will agree) that General hamid gul does not fall into the category of Malik ishaq, LEJ cold blooded terrorists, bait ullah mshood, or OBL etc. I have never supported hamid gul vision but he served our army for 40 years. It was not only him but a generation of generals who thought like him, shared his vision and acted like him and we can and will criticize that vision but no, hameed gul was no cold murderer like malik ishaq. If someone had tried to open a similar thread for malik ishaq, we would have closed it. PERIOD

Second, when we open or allow to open a thread like this, we can think of it as an equivalent to going to someone's funeral and my personal request was not to pollute it with too much with negativity, bickering, fights, and bad remarks for the deceased one. We can and will have separate threads to do all that and discuss his vision...that was just a request from me, not GS policy.

Third, if someone hates him too much, there is no need to offer him a fateh or maghfarat ... just stay away from that thread instead of showing up in the thread with negative remarks, which is otherwise filled with duas and quranic verses for the deceased one. Again, think of going to someone's funeral and how one will act per our cultural norms. For civilized criticism (which is your right), just open a separate thread.

Hope it helps

thx

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During 70's and 80's we had a type of generals which were very much of the ssame ideology ( very close fo Sauid version of Islam ) . They became more rigid in their ideology in reaction to the dominant ultra modern one like Yahya.

I dont think any one will catagorise them in line of Malik Ishaq or OBL or Mahsood. He was a patriot and hard worker and firm beleiver of his opinions and tried his best to implement these opinions in what ever capacity he had.
What I feel that he was he and ppl like him didnt havd vision to estimate what will be the consequences of the steps they were taking. This is the main problem whihc I have with all such stubborn ppl who feel that our Army is the Wisest and most patriot group of ppl in pakistan and Bloody civilians are stupidest , corrupt and Ghaddar.

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

Orya ki tahreer gul sb k barey mein

#legendary_hameed_gul](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=legendary_hameed_gul)

Restored attachments:

Hamid-Gul-Sahib.jpg
Hamid-Gul-Sahib.jpg800×600 96.9 KB

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#general_hameed_gul_aor_woh_larkay](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=general_hameed_gul_aor_woh_larkay)

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11903817_775626992559406_976846650093398268_n.jpg?oh=276a039df7860722239cc9ae49028cbe&oe=56714EC9

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#dr_shahid_masood_aor_hameed_gul](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=dr_shahid_masood_aor_hameed_gul)

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سولہ اگست پاکستان کے لئے ایک افسوس ناک دن

حمید گل صاحب کے نظریات کے ساتھ آپ اختلافات کر سکتے ہیں اتفاق کر سکتے ہیں لیکن ایک بہت بڑا محب وطن شخص اس کی پاکستانیت پر شک نہیں کر سکتے اور نہ ہی ان کی اسلام سے محبت پر
**
ڈیڑھ ڈیڑھ انچ کے بونے سوشل میڈیا اور اور ٹی وی چنلز پر بیٹھ کے بڑھ بڑھ کر رہے ہیں جنرل حمید گل اور ان کے دوسرے آرمی افسرز کے خلاف سانسدان اور بڑے لوگ دنیا کے یہ سب لوگ جنرل حمید کے پاؤں کی مٹی کے برابر بھی نہیں ہیں جنرل حمید گل ایک زبردست تھنکر تھے… ڈاکٹر شاہد مسعود
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جنرل ر حمید گل کی فیملی کا یادگار انٹرویو : جنرل حمید گل نے اپنی بیگم کے کینسر کے بیرون ملک علاج کے پیسے ایک کیپٹن کی بیگم کے علاج کے لیے دے دیے

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Live With Dr. Shahid Masood ? 16th August 2015 - Video Dailymotion

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

Your whole bloody civilian claptrap is getting so boring and lame and stinks of agenda. Army is indeed the most patriotic and efficient insituttion in the country, don't any fauji hater's sarcastic drivel to confirm that.

In case you don't know, the whole formation of Mujaheedin took place under a bloody civilian ZAB's era, so yes over 10 years before Hameed Gul took over as ISI Chief. Read a thing or two about the deep offence ZAB took in Afghanistan's meddling in KPK, and how he wanted to punish them and keep up them under control. Trash and bash the generals all you want because you know nothing better, but the whole movement of kissing up to Arab world's, finding mutual foreign policy goals and offering complete co-operation was started under ZAB. So I laugh at the naivety of people like you who think Pakistan as a country - regardless of who was ruling/controlling it - would have resisted not just a Western superpower's USA, but a Muslim powerhouse and an intimately close ally Saudi Arabia's request to play a role in driving out the Soviets from its neighbouring country.

I challenge anyone who knows anything about Pakistan history to prove that Bhutto would have taken a totally different policy than Zia if he was leading Pakistan in Afghan Jihad knowing his close association with Arab world, and Saudi Arabia, and reservation against Daood Khan's government. The whole bastadisation of Pakistan constitution and classification of Ahmdis as non Muslim happened under a bloody civilian so quit crying how Zia did this or that. Zia has been dead for 40 years, if bloody civilians hated him so much, why didn't override his blunders? What has PPP done in Sindh to kill Zia's legacy? Jack squat. They never cared. Bashing Zia was always a political slogan.

So in your blind hatred for Army and Generals, do not try to pollute facts.

I wonder if Army haters like you give any credit for Army for refusing to get involve in Yemen crises while bloody civilians ready to bow down to Saudi pressure to return some personal favours? You think our Generals would not have liked another injection of billions of petro dollars to upgrade the Pak Army's weaponry?

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^ thanks for your comments... I dont hate army ( specailly the army jawans who are the pride of nation ) . I dont hate Generals blindly. I only dont like these generarls to be shown as the holy and wise cow of our country while all bloody civilians are stupid and lesser patriot which you keep trying on each and every post.
ZAB is being hated and criticized on his wrong doing as majority of Bloody civilians . Only holy cow is the generals. Look what punishment is given for NLC case and many other cases in the past. Admiral Mansur case is not that old who agreed to pay 45 crore ( Allah knows from where he bring that money ) but how much he got in return. I recently posted the salary structure of army high ranks , life style of most of these ppl doesnt match with the earning. Is there any justification.

Conclusion is there are bloody and stupid available both on the civilian side as well as army officers side. Similarly there are both patriotic personalities present on civilian and army officers side.

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

Hamid Gul was a disaster even for his Jihadist ambitions, his army general credentials and his role as ISI spymaster.

As an army general, he was the architect of the failed "mujahideen" attack on Jalalabad that was defended by Najib forces after Soviet withdrawal. He boasted of conquering Jalalabad in no time with all of the Saudi, CIA and Pakistan army resources, money, soldiers and arms at his disposal, an isolated Najib and a city in close proximity to Pakistani border. Yet his poor planning and execution of the attack doomed the attack and failure the most likely outcome. How can he be a darling of the army men in Pakistan?

As the ISI spymaster, he was the architect and responsible for the disastrous change in policy of his predecessor general Rehman who basically delivered the American supplied arms directly to the "mujahideen" commanders without discriminating much, resulting in quick supply of arms to all groups without much in-fighting. Gul, upon taking over, changed it to storing the arms in large depots in Pakistan (Ojhri camp being one of them) and tightly controlling the supply to field commanders. That resulted in poor supply of arms to the field commanders when they needed them. He tried to favor some groups (like Hekmatyar) over others (like Masood) for this arms supply which resulted in much in-fighting of these groups and crippled the campaign against the Soviets. Storing arms so near Rawalpindi and Islamabad in Ojhri camp (so that the supply remained under his tight control) was anoter disaster when (either as an accident or a result of sabotage) the Ojhri camp blew up and all those missiles rained down on Islamabad and Pindi, killing hundreds. Protecting his liability with Ojhri camp, he was then responsible for dismissal of the Junejo government.
His other misadventures like the plots against the first Benazir government, IJI formation also were complete failure and reflected poorly on Pakistan army and ISI.

How was this guy a hero, even for Jehadist and army lovers?

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In case you don't know, ZAB was groomed and propped up by general in the first place.

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

Again same old usual anti Army propaganda. Zia is seen as a holy cow? Musharraf is seen as a holy cow? Yahya is seen as a holy cow? These people have never been criticised for their actions? None of the Generals should be forgiven for creating urban terrorists like MQM! No I do not try to paint bloody civilians as less patriotic and less intelligent, I supported lone man Imran even when Musharraf was at the peak of his popularity (yes loved by your MQM and people of Karachi), and I still unapologetically and passionately support PTI because I believe in civilian rule and patriotic clean people coming forward. And get this - Imran neither shares my ethnicity, speaks my language nor lives in my City! My support for him is based on none of those factors. See not all bloody civilians are stupid.

Unlike you I have some self respect and I would never use the word 'bloody civilians' to express my *rona pitna and u*se it as a tool to launch propaganda against the army. I am simply not a bloody civilian, and I refuse to see myself as one, and no my army doesn't see me as one either! Military dictators may have used this term to dismiss corrupt, unpatriotic and lesser intelligent civilian rulers, but military certainly does not hold this view and attitude for civilian population of Pakistan as they are the saviour of the state and the protector of the people. Instead of being so bitterly jealous of Army's popularity and respect within the 'bloody civilians', ask bloody civilians to improve their institutions. You use this whole bloody civilians BS to provoke, spread paranoia, and paint a nasty people/civilian hating image of Pakistan Army.

No, the whole history of ZAB is being re-written and people are talking openly about his blunders after PPP's criminally incompetent five years rule. It is only now that curse of Bhutto romance is drying in the country and people are judging the damages Bhutto family has caused, thanks to Zardari for opening their eyes. It was almost political blasphemy to say anything about a 'bloody civilian' shaheed, don't you even dare lie on the fact that for years Bhutto did not get a clean chit for so many of his blunders because people were so blinded by their hatred for Zia or Yahya.

I have no time to defend military dictators, but I have all the respect, trust and admiration for military as an institution especially when I pinned all my hopes on a bloody civilian to find a solution to Taliban problem, but it took a general to show leadership, take charge of the situation and bring peace in the country against all odds. May God bless them with all the success, may their sacrifices nourish the soul of the country for generations to come.

God bless the General for literally proving that Pakistan Army is indeed the saviour of the country and now let's show our patriotism how they show it in the Army - Pakistan Zindabad. Pak Fauj Zindabad. Pakistan Paindabad.

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Thanks for the agreement

Thanks for the agreement

Thanks for the agreement

Thanks for the agreement .

That will be good. Hope you look others also the same way as others also have self respect which keep crushed by some self proclaimed danishwars.

I dont feel myself and many civilains before me as less educated , less patriot and less intelligent. Just like dictators / Generals they also made good and bad decision but they are being punished and labelled as bloody civilians / ghaddar etc etc but the generals who made criminal mistakes are never being considered as bloody army men or ghaddar or what not. This asad durrani is spilling our official secrests but no one is there to stop him.

This is one of the most important point. Civilain institutions will grow tall and strong only if there is continuity. If these bloody civilian institutions keep dismantled by our respected saviuor , Educated , competent and patriot Amry men , be sure they will never grow. Your love , IK was not waiting for the system to improve rather he was waiting for the finger of umpire. I do had only hope from PTI but the non sense and the U - turns he is taking is very much same as AH. AH once come into the pciture had real charisma but later he lost all due to the non sense he is doing. I am sure the same is going to happen soon the IK as his speeches and the U turns are becoming less and less tolerable for educated bloody civilians.

BTW I hope u know what Idea IK has about army generals ( the famous video in which he is telling about the denerals are so coward that once there are few thousands or lacs ppl , their pants will xxxxx )

Bye bye

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

Ameen
Pakistan Zindabad. Pak Fauj Zindabad. Pakistan Paindabad :jhanda:

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Re: Hamid Gul passes away

Thanks for agreeing that you have lied. The kind of bitter criticism likes of Yahya Khan, Zia ul Haq, and Musharraf had been facing totally rubbish your propaganda that Generals are seen as Holy Cow. Then you say you don't hate the generals blindly.

[QUOTE]
That will be good. Hope you look others also the same way as others also have self respect which keep crushed by some self proclaimed danishwars.
[/QUOTE]

Honestly, some people really suit the term 'bloody civilians', I hope they continue to use such terms to describe themselves. Their behaviour and attitude does full justice to the term.

[QUOTE]
I dont feel myself and many civilains before me as less educated , less patriot and less intelligent. Just like dictators / Generals they also made good and bad decision but they are being punished and labelled as bloody civilians / ghaddar etc etc but the generals who made criminal mistakes are never being considered as bloody army men or ghaddar or what not. This asad durrani is spilling our official secrests but no one is there to stop him.
[/QUOTE]

Unless your whole rona dhona is based on the ass whooping MQM is getting (yes someone's terrorists are other person's innocent 'bloody civilians') Name me one bloody civilian leader who actually got 'punished' according to rule of law - if not then just have some shame and stop lying. Last time I checked, it's an Army Chief who's currently facing a trial under Article 6.

As far as MQM is concerned - they are ghaddars, no amount of Army hating from you can justify MQM asking India and NATO to intervene in Pakistan - taking money from RAW to destroy the financial capital of Pakistan, killing thousands of innocent Pakistanis, making citizens' life a living hell. Maybe you should thank the Army generals for allowing your MQM to continue, imagine what India would have done to a political party if any remote links with ISI funding was discovered. People who call country's creation as the biggest blunder of mankind are indeed ghaddar - sorry only the bloody civilians are capable of uttering such traitorous sheet, an Army General would die than allow such thought to cross his mind. I can guarantee you that!

[QUOTE]
do had only hope from PTI but the non sense and the U - turns he is taking is very much same as AH. AH once come into the pciture had real charisma but later he lost all due to the non sense he is doing. I am sure the same is going to happen soon the IK as his speeches and the U turns are becoming less and less tolerable for educated bloody civilians.

[/QUOTE]

What a sick comment. Clearly your agenda is something else.

I don't know which rock you had been living under or how blinded you are with ethnic bias - but Altaf Hussain lost his legitimate popularity due to violence and terrorism. Do you know this? I'm shocked. AH/MQM is a terrorist ethno fascist force, responsible for killing thousands of innocent people on the basis of ethnicity and political opposition, target killing and extortion is party's lifeline, they have destroyed Karachi's economy and you think all this could be compared to wishy washy political U turns of PTI? Height of desperation. Your MQM would have seen the daylight out of Karachi - well before there was PTI - if the party was only ever accused of 'nonsense' and 'U- Turns' - not terror! You get this?

Maybe educated people like do can PTI a favour and just stick to apologising for urban terrorists - MQM, instead of supporting PTI. Thank you very much. The party will still do just fine if doesn't get some ethnic votes.

[QUOTE]
BTW I hope u know what Idea IK has about army generals ( the famous video in which he is telling about the denerals are so coward that once there are few thousands or lacs ppl , their pants will xxxxx )
[/QUOTE]

So I should start hating Army because His Highness doesn't like some Generals? Sorry, we ain't talking about Altaf Hussian and his diatribe against military where all his supporters and sympathisers will blindly start spewing poison against military because their leader said so.

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Dear July

Seriously You need to learn to reply in the context of discussion rather than bringing something totally out of discussion.. Maybe due to your hot temper what ever u think u are just spitting.
From where MQM came into most of your comments.

Although from your comments it is very clear that you consider your self as AQL-Kul and all others having different opinion are plain stupid ( hence suitable for being called as bloody civilian ) . I am not bothered by this attitude much coz this is the attitude that already bothered many of the people having difference in opinion from the die hard fans of PTI.
This attitude is like a kid keep saying I am rite , I am rite , I am rite .....
With passage of time hopefully you will also cool down and understand that one can never always be correct.

BTW I re-iterate , what is your comment about the nasty statement of IK about Army generals ?? Is this a good statement. Shud he be ashamed of it ??

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Deer August

nam to theek likho :cobra:

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Chalo august khud hi aa gaya. Was thinking who cud be august.