ISLAMABAD: The founder and spiritual leader of the Islamic militant group Hamas said on Thursday that America was trying to trick Pakistan into recognizing Israel, a move he warned would be a “disaster.” Sheik Ahmed Yassin made the comments in a recorded speech aired on loudspeakers at a rally of nearly 10,000 Islamic students at a university in the capital, Islamabad. Pakistan has no diplomatic ties with Israel, but President Pervez Musharraf has encouraged a national debate about whether Islamabad should recognize the Jewish state.
On Thursday, Yassin’s message said in Arabic, “Pakistan should not recognize Israel. Pakistan should not be deceived by the Americans. Recognition of Israel would be a disaster.” An interpreter translated the speech into Urdu.
Yassin also spoke about American troops in Afghanistan. "Despite its might, America is trapped in Afghanistan. America’s oppression and might will not last forever,‘’ he said. “Muslims should get more strength. Muslims will rule in the future. Muslims should get strength by working hard.”
They allowed this clown in the country?
by the same token arabs should not have recognized India due to Kashmir issue..right?
and palestinain leaders, including arafat should not have been buddies with the Indians..but they were..until it bcame unfashionable to be their pals for India.
Let Pakistan do what is in pakistan's strategic interest..I suppose the immediate problem with that will be his group's idiots killing innocent Pakistanis?
Pakistan is quite far removed from Israel both geographically and in terms of absence of any direct issues or land disputes with Israel.
Other then the fact that we are 'probably' the only muslim nuclear country, there is no reason why this Hamas leader would make it a point addressed to Pakistan only. There is a huge mass of muslim countries surrounding Israel. If, at some point in the future, some or all of them recognize Israel and settle their outstanding issues (either gladly or by force), then there is little reason for Pakistan to hold out as some purist who is out of tune from rest of its peers.
At the current time, in my view, it should be a non-issue. First, let Israel settle its disputes with its middle-eastern neighbors, then let OIC decide on its recommendations. This is important for Pakistan because good relationships with KSA, UAE and other muslim states are important for us, not only because of muslim bhaichaara, but also bcz some of these states are huge financial supporters for Pakistan (cheap oil and all that) so it doesn't make sense to irk them off or short-sell them by pre-matrurely recognizing Israel. They are trying to gain some concessions from US/israel by dangling the carrot of en-mass recognition after acceptance of their demands.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
They allowed this clown in the country?
by the same token arabs should not have recognized India due to Kashmir issue..right?
and palestinain leaders, including arafat should not have been buddies with the Indians..but they were..until it bcame unfashionable to be their pals for India.
Let Pakistan do what is in pakistan's strategic interest..I suppose the immediate problem with that will be his group's idiots killing innocent Pakistanis?
[/QUOTE]
I'd like to keep my views about if Pakistan should accept Isreal or not to myself.. but i must say that Pakistan should NOT watch its own self interest alone. No one can predict tomorrow, but if we watch our own interests like the rest of arabs did... who is to say we won't end up like them?
Re: Hamas Warns Pakistan Against Recognizing Israel
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hello143: *
On Thursday, Yassin's message said in Arabic, "Pakistan should not recognize Israel. Pakistan should not be deceived by the Americans. Recognition of Israel would be a disaster." An interpreter translated the speech into Urdu.
[/QUOTE]
Muslims of pakistan are not deceived they know the nature of america and israel bunch of liars and baby killers, the likes of busharaff are thinking by capitulating and bowing down to americas every wish and command they will recive a few crumbs, musharaff will end up like nazwaz the theif or general zia once his use to the americans come to an end!
What can you do really. The Palestinians really have to get there act togeather. Is'nt there there PM that Abbas guy in India right now. How can they expect Pakistani support if they are always pandering to India, despite India's close ties with Israel. Anyways, we should still try to support our fellow muslims for as long as possible but everything has a limit.
Hamas and the rest of the Arab jokers can go to hell. No Kashmiri life is worth less than a Palestinian. We don’t have to let these clowns dictate our foriegn policy. I say Pakistan should recognize Israel.
Don’t believe the lies people, the Arabs have ditched us for India a long time ago.
Rf, even Pakistan seems to have ditched the Kashmiris...the recent visits of the Indian delegations and vice versa across the borders, where people have been saying all along that the people across the borders are the same people, having same history, culture blah blah, therefore the artificial boundaries be removed...i am not talking about the Indian politicians only, some Pakistani politicians have started talking about these things as well. Well, once the boundaries are removed, the Kashmir issue will be solved automatically.
Arafat and Abu Mazen, and their government, is not representative of the Palestinian people - it is a dictatorship, not a representative democracy.
Until you prove to me that the Palestinian in the street is Pro-India and Anti-Pakistani, and doesn't give a hoot about the Kashmir liberation struggle, I say that there is no grounds at all to even so much as consider morally abandoning the Palestinian cause and recognising Israel.
Fact: In the Muslim world, there is not a single representative government which has recognised Israel. Every single free democracy in the Muslim world (Turkey is exempted, where the military has power to force political decisions on the government) does not accept the existence of Israel. Only the dictatorships do; only the dictatorships shove acceptance of this injustance down the throats of their people.
I refuse to belive that the Arab on the street favours India more than Pakistan, or feels a Kashmiri life in anything less than a Palestinian life.
But the Arab on the street has no say in the matter - he must accept the rule and dictats of the ruling clique.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kiyani: *
but i must say that Pakistan should NOT watch its own self interest alone. No one can predict tomorrow, but if we watch our own interests like the rest of arabs did... who is to say we won't end up like them?
[/QUOTE]
watching out for pakistan's interest does nto mean in insulation from rest of the world, but factoring in multiple variables and then taking the direction which is strategically in the best interest of the country.
In contrast, it appears that with the exception of a couple, arab countries self interest is mostly defined as the continuance of the ruling family's reign.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zaavia: *
Rf, even Pakistan seems to have ditched the Kashmiris...the recent visits of the Indian delegations and vice versa across the borders, where people have been saying all along that the people across the borders are the same people, having same history, culture blah blah, therefore the artificial boundaries be removed...i am not talking about the Indian politicians only, some Pakistani politicians have started talking about these things as well. Well, once the boundaries are removed, the Kashmir issue will be solved automatically.
[/QUOTE]
bull****, they are two different nations with their own history, tradition and culture...the politicians from both sides are a bunch of liars and play with the emotions of their people to fulfill their own personal ambitions...i don't think any pakhtun is dying to hug a gujrati or any panjabi a rajasthani or any balochi is yearning to visit any place in india...the interest of pak panjabis is confined to east panjab ...only the mohajir community of lower sindh do have some links with their relatives in india, who were left behind during partition...this boundary is a reality and should remain as it is now...no confederation no undo of the partition...these people were not happy before the partition neither they are now...panjabis, balochis and pakhtuns are very different in every aspect from the people living across the border in india...annulment of the partition will cause another great disaster ....
:k:
Very well said. Ths is something many people don’t understand. The border is a very real thing. The vast majority of Pakistanis don’t have very many cultural links with India.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zaavia: *
Rf, even Pakistan seems to have ditched the Kashmiris...the recent visits of the Indian delegations and vice versa across the borders, where people have been saying all along that the people across the borders are the same people, having same history, culture blah blah, therefore the artificial boundaries be removed...i am not talking about the Indian politicians only, some Pakistani politicians have started talking about these things as well. Well, once the boundaries are removed, the Kashmir issue will be solved automatically.
[/QUOTE]
Zaavia, I think democracy is a great thing etc., however, when we do have moron politicians (I know who your talking about) then maybe it is better to have the military running the show. On the ground, the average person still believes in the cause of the Kashmiri struggle and the Nazaria-e-Pakistan. Lets liquidate any and all anti-Pakistan politicians :)
I totally agree…We should stop this nonesense of promoting Indian culture..Lets promote a Pakistani culture that comes from Sarhad, Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan with a heavy emphasis on Islam…that way we can finally turn back this rising tide of “Indian” Pakistanis.
We as Pakistanis have to play a leading role in the Ummah, and I think thats what Allah created Pakistan for. There truly is a difference between the Khaen Arab governments and the Muslims in Arab countries. Our support is for the Ummah and its causes, not for dictators as one brother said.
Recognizing Israel will not do us good as we will alienate the Muslim world opinion. Israel is far from us and we have no links, neither do we need links with a terrorist state like Israel. We will never accept their existence. If they give rights to Muslims there, then we may, with the concensus of OIC.
All Muslims of the world naturally do side with Pakistan, simply because we are bonded by religion. Governments which are mostly dictatorial are separate from the people in the Muslim world (in most cases).
Pakistan has its own identity and I think it was not a good idea to confuse the nation into the question of accepting or rejecting Israel. By the way, if you read or hear most of the Arab media in Arabic, you will realize that even the opening of this debate in Pakistan has not gone in our favor. So called sate of "Israel" has been clever enough to trap us into this, so that Pakistan could be shown as a traitor country like the Muslim neighbors of so called Israel.
maybe i'm not as much into politics these dayz, but wat difference is it gonna really make if we recognize israel or not. how will it change nething? ...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
We as Pakistanis have to play a leading role in the Ummah, and I think thats what Allah created Pakistan for.
[/QUOTE]
heck, and I have always firmly believed that it was jinnah who created pakistan...
Until you prove to me that the Palestinian in the street is Pro-India and Anti-Pakistani, and doesn't give a hoot about the Kashmir liberation struggle, I say that there is no grounds at all to even so much as consider morally abandoning the Palestinian cause and recognising Israel.
[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter what the people on the street think, if their governments are implementing pro-India policies in their own interests why shouldn't ours look out for the interests of Pakistan? Recognising Israel should be based solely on whether it's in our interests as a nation period.
Doesn't matter what the people on the street think, if their governments are implementing pro-India policies in their own interests why shouldn't ours look out for the interests of Pakistan? Recognising Israel should be based solely on whether it's in our interests as a nation period.
[/QUOTE]
^ Excellent response
Maddy, while I understand your pro-Islam jazbati statements, they are an easy cop out for the majority of the Arab nations supporting India. Pakistan isn't exactly a true democracy either, and I would like to put Pakistan first, like the President. How long can we continue this nonsensical charade?
My Uncle and Aunt went to Israel this past month, they have Pakistani passports but asked the Israeli authorities to not stamp them. They visited Al Aqsa, Bethleham, Jersusalem's old quarter...had a very nice experience, a religious one too. Why shouldnt other Pakistani be allowed to go to Qibla-e-Awal?
A stronger Pakistan with ties to Isreal can make a positive change like relief services to Palestinians, diplomatic pressure on Israelis etc.
1stly two wrongs does not make a right.. secoundly the "ABBAS" guy does not repersent the whole palestinians. he himself is another american pupet...
And saying that arabs have left us a long time ago for india.. dont blame them for everything.. think what ur doin wrong!!
Ive heard all teh products used in Arab are Indian products.. y? coz pakistani products have flaws.. they try to get all eggs out of the Hen at once..
And secoundly stay with what u spray... most pakis run for UAE... Anyway if one is astray.. u dont need to follow them and say that i came under pressure.. Coz on kiyamat.. there are no excuses...
And u were sayin that Abbas is in india?,... what about Isreal selling its anti-missile technology to India.. for the purpose of distroying us!!!
So think before u spray. A muslim is a brother to another muslim... if some have given up.. doesnot mean everyone else has to as well.
And yeah.. the Arab government gave up.. not the people.. the goverment does not repersent its people.. those culprits repersent their own intrests!!!