Had Pakistan not cooperated with USA in pushing back the commie threat from USSR, what would the country look like today?
Possible scenarios?
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
Could any situation be worse than what we are dealing with today?
In case Pakistan/US had not provided training and financial support to the so-called "mujahideen", Pakistan would not have had this terrible fasaad in the name of Islam by Taliban munafiqeen.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
First of all the myth of... USSR gonna take over Pakistan was total bullshyt and came from the unbalance brain of Gen. Zia.
^ after you comprehend this, their is no need for any other explanation !
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
I guess Gen Zia couldntresist the dollars that were flowing in from Washington to help "liberate" Afghans. Even Rambo came to help.
Re: Had there been no ‘Mujahideen’…
The question came to my mind reading: Afghanistan: The Soviet Invasion in Perspective - Anthony Arnold - Google Books
Its an interesting account of what was happening and was written before the soviets pulled out. It repeats again and again that Pakistan insisted that the ‘aid’ to mujahideen through Pakistan be limited and covert. Reading pages 136 and ahead gives us an idea of what was supposed to be done and not doing that lead us to the present condition.
For me, Kashmir issue is an interesting dilemma. I have never understood what Pakistan’s policy actually was. Its such a hotchpotch! Can we delink our policy on Kashmir and that on Afghanistan?
Could Pakistan be, say, something like Thailand now if we had not insisted in ‘supporting’ mujahideen in Afghanistan and Kashmir? Or, could our fate would have been something like that of Vietnam?
Re: Had there been no \'Mujahideen\'...
I have said many times and say it again. Pakistan would have been in much much better condition, had that mardood Zia-ul-Haq did not involve Pakistan in Russian War through jehadi agenda. This b@stard for the love of $s let the whole nation thrown in to hell. Saying this JI is also part of this mess. In toppling Bhutto\\'s government, they brought this mardood and allowed him to rape the whole country for more than one decade. Country is still breeding the illegitimate jehaadis making the lives of Pakistanis more miserable, not only in Pakistan but in the whole world.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
Like now, may be then also Pakistan had no choice but to support the USA in stopping the Soviet advance into Afghanistan. But I think they thought such support will get them some advantage in making a bid for Kashmir and / or strengthening a hold on Afghanistan. In both Pakistan failed and things have become worse.
I think things will improve only when most of those officers and serving cadre in the military including ISI etc retire, that generation which took part in supporting the jihadi movements which spawned into the contemporary terrorist groups.
In general, Pakistan has to forget about anyonething outside its own borders and concentrate on internal development - economy, institutions, culture & civic affairs, human rights, and mpost importantly putting the genie of religious extremism back into the bottle or lamp. Send the lamp back to the arabian desert.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
Hindsight is always 20/20, so may can argue now how fatal an error it was. But i am sure if there was any other person in place of Zia, he wold have acted differently. Our policies have always been US centric and since our inception we have done what US dictated. Even if it was Musharraf or Shaheed BB, they would have done the same as Zia did.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
May be. But the level of friendship by generals can not be matched. They sold the nation sole to Uncle Sam. Police waalay ki na dosti acchi, na dushmani. Zia-ul-Haq should have understood this logic. As promised by him, he should have gone to barracks after conducting elections within 90 days. Same mistake committed by Musharraf. After toppling the NS\'s government, he should have gone to barracks well before 911.
I guess Gen Zia couldntresist the dollars that were flowing in from Washington to help "liberate" Afghans. Even Rambo came to help.
that was the most "dramatic" part of Afghan (Jihad) :D
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
What you people don't realize is that Pakistani people have a little say in the affairs of this country and yet we tend to own up all the mess and prove to the world that we are the culprits.
No one gave us a choice to go for Afghan Jihad or not. USA used a military dictator to do it.
Even if the military dictator had refused it, then Pakistan would have to face serious consequences from USA itself. Then we would have two enemies: USSR and USA and Pakistan would have been crushed a long time ago.
What Pakistan has been facing is terrorism of super powers. You co-operate with them and get the blame for all the mess OR if you don't co-operate you will get a bigger mess.
Same thing happened after 9/11.
We never had a choice.
Same thing happened after 9/11.
We never had a choice.
No, we definitely had a choice. If you remember Gen. Dictator Zia had initially rebuffed the $400 million / year aid from Jimmy Carter, calling it 'Peanuts' adding "What do I buy with 400 million dollars? the hostility of Russians? and that does not suit me"
However when Reagan offered pretty much the same amount of aid it was accepted. The reason was political. Reagans Republicans offered General dictator Zia much needed political legitimacy.
Same as in 9/11. Musharraf bent over backwards so far that even Collin Powell was surprised (Bob Woodward, Bush at War). Again Mush needed political legitimacy.
I definitely think the civilian leadership would have acted differently. Especially if someone like ZA Bhutto was there. Who went against all international pressure in giving Pakistan nuclear capability.
Soviet Union with its "Prestroika" and "Glassnost" (Thanks to Gorbachev) was already on its way down (extremely bad economy, bread lines). Pakistan could have diplomatically played both super-powers and gained for its citizens.
Hindsight is 20/20 but I think had there not been a military ruler things would have gone better (in this particular case).
No country outside of Western Europe shared a border with the USSR or a USSR-occupied country without either being militarily allied with the USA or influenced/puppetted by the USSR.
With Afghanistan effectively annexed to Russia.... Pakistan would be bullied into coming under the thumb.
The warm-water port theory (that the USSR wanted to control Pakistan for an Arabian sea port) is not some fabrication of Zia's mind.
The USSR was certain that NATO was planning an attack on it. Its leaders believed that they needed to discourage NATO as much as possible; being able to base a fleet in Pakistan that could threaten NATO's oil supply, and act as a base for further influence in the Middle East / Africa, would be a major strategic asset.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
20 years down the line(if we survive), the same people in this thread(who support drone attacks) will be criticizing the government for cooperating with the USA and will say we would of been better off without interfering... I guess CNN is their source of knowledge.
First of all the myth of... USSR gonna take over Pakistan was total bullshyt and came from the unbalance brain of Gen. Zia.
^ after you comprehend this, their is no need for any other explanation !
In hindsight, it probably was BS fed to Pakistan by the Americans who really wanted to contai the USSR. On the other hand, it would have been a strategically sound move for an aggressive and expansionist super power.
20 years ago… US was supporting and we were front line nation… same situation today.. now lets wait for the future 
..
I guess Gen Zia couldntresist the dollars that were flowing in from Washington to help "liberate" Afghans. Even Rambo came to help.
Rambo and James Bond .. Timothy Dalton's first bond movie was on Afghan war ..
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
if there never had been mujahadeen, then british india would have conquered afghanistan.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
Afghanistan has been a home to mujahideen long before and after many empires.
The mujahideen will be there long after the Americans have gone. Insha Allah.
I am not a taliban fanatic....
But i know enough about the Afghan races history of defaince to see that they stood up to the likes of Kyros, Dareios1, Alexander...(Sikander), Ghengis Khan... and the British empire.
I only pray Allah help Pakistan, which unlike Afghanistan is not the sort of country that can tolerate being bulldozed as much... afterall we should be worried becuase unlike Afghanistan Pakistan has terrain more favourable to the enemy attacker than to the defender.
Re: Had there been no 'Mujahideen'...
Well can i say, Had USSR not invaded Afghanistan???
I don't why we try to cut the branches of a tree and does not look at the root cause of the issue? Mujahedeen, Zia's involvement ( which BTW was there from day one and american joined in later when they were sure that these mujaheedin can bring USSR down) were reaction of action taken by USSR...
So let see if the former USSR hadn't invaded Afghanistan what were the chances that former Mujaheedin and current terroist would have existed in today's world???