Had India not partitioned........

[Andhra]

sambrialian(Is there a special meaning for the nick?),
We pretty much want to stick to our own backyard. If you remember Bangladesh issue was forced on us. Though I guess Pakistanis will find that hard to believe. As for Kashmir it is an internal or at best a bilateral matter as far as India is concerned.
And as for Pakistan and India being together and Pakistan's so called legitimacy etc., I agree with ZZ that we are much better off separately.
We are interested in Pakistan because Pakistan keeps meddling in our affairs, as simple as that!!
As for Muslims-Hindus having problems, some Muslims no doubt are dissatisified, if you think about it Indian Muslims got the worst deal out of the partition. Muslims in Pakistan were fine after they did the ethnic cleansing and all Sikhs, Sindhi, Punjabi Hindus ended up in India.
There was a lot of bitterness on this side.
Still Hindu-Muslim relations in India are, let me put it this way better than Shia-Sunni relation in Pakistan or elsewhere.
The same goes for relations between various states, between North and South etc., and in my opinion it is better that the bitterness come out and be dealt with.

[Abdali]

Originally posted by Andhra:
**>>I can add few to Lodhis, Nadirs, sayeeds but hey whats the point. Its all new to hindians its not part of their history.<<
Well Lodhis were confined to North India mostly as I understand it.
By the way Lodhis are very much part of our History.
If you go to NEW Delhi you will find Lodhi Park. And it is beautiful too.
Wiping out history or pretending to be central asians is not part of Indian curriculum

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

**

hey the list is endless of your islamic masters.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

[rvikz]

India has no quarrel with the Pakistani people. problem is with the rulers.

rulers of that country have subjected the people of Pakistan the pain and humiliation

[system]

lol, people of Pakistan are very astute and full aware of the happening in their country and around the World

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

. We freely criticise a ruler we feel has gone astray. unlike in india, where people are living a life of abbadon in total oblivion.

[rvikz]

While the two nation theory no longer has a role in ensuring the survival
of Pakistan, opposition to the theory is important to multi-religious
nations like India and Bangladesh that continue to have significant
religious minorities. Neither India nor Bangladesh can do justice to
their religious minorities unless they reject religion as the basis for
nationality.

[system]

what?

[rvikz]

present day crisis in forming a goverment in afghanistan proves other factors like tribal
loyalty ethinic groups play a significant role despite commonality of religen

[blackzero]

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
** how can create little states within india
purely based on religen.

india abolished all princly states and became
republic. dont try revive kingdoms

[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited November 27, 2001).]**
[/quote]

Who gave the right to india to invade an independate state and subsume it.. Is it not the same act that was done by Iraq against Kuwait.. against all international laws last time i saw it.

If it was right for india to walk in Deccan - which was not based on religion, just a independent state - then it was right for Iraq to invade Kuwait

[sean]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by taurus: *
Hi Madz,

Nice to know that you are from a Hyderabadi family. I dont think Hyderabad lost anything by asceeding to India. There are mosques everywhere and urdu is almost official language there. Its member of Parliament in Muslim. Indian Cricket captain Azza from from Hyderabad. Last years Miss Asia Pacific was a Hyderabadi muslim lass. Another muslim girl from same city (Sania Mirza) is national women's tennis champion entered into and There are tonnes of other women muslim actresses from that area (including Tabbu).

After Hyderabad became hub of IT industry scores of muslim boys came up in life. Of course 80% of muslims are still auto-rishaw drivers or chai-walla's that's only because they do not show interest in modern education. But nobody is stopping them in India.

It these people would have migrated to Pakistan they would not have made it !
[/QUOTE]

Isn't the language of Hydrabad also Telegu?

[expatobserver]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@PakistaniAbroad

Taurus,

just having popular cricket players and movie stars from a state doesn’t mean it’s natives are flourishing.

How does it compare with e.g. a state like Kerala when we talk about literacy, birth rate, infant mortality, poverty, corruption, law 'n order?

What’s the degree of industrialization and information technology, and higher education infrastructure compared to the rest of Indian cities.. e.g. Bangalore?

and lastly, is belonging to a minority religion in anyway hampering their progress in any of the above?

[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited November 27, 2001).]

Azim Premji (India’s richest man and a muslim) operates Wipro a muslim owned IT company in Bangalore. Just being in Bangalore does not mean muslims are not represented in India’s prosperity. And as a matter of fact Hyderbad is now called cyberabad.

[antiobl]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@expatobserver

Azim Premji (India’s richest man and a muslim) operates Wipro a muslim owned IT company in Bangalore. Just being in Bangalore does not mean muslims are not represented in India’s prosperity. And as a matter of fact Hyderbad is now called cyberabad.

How come you guys stop at Premji? It is now an old story Baboo!

Bharat now has 150 or so millions of Muslims. You gotta have more than “ONE” show piece businessman. Or for some reason Bharati Muslims lack the skills required to be a good businessman.

Best regards

[RashGuy]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

lol, people of Pakistan are very astute and full aware of the happening in their country and around the World http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif. We freely criticise a ruler we feel has gone astray. unlike in india, where people are living a life of abbadon in total oblivion.

Moderators please move this to the jokes section !!!
You people will freely criticise a ruler who has gone astray and end up in the ghettos. Living under a military rule for decades has made you think like the frog in the well.

[vineshvk]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@antiobl

How come you guys stop at Premji? It is now an old story Baboo!

Bharat now has 150 or so millions of Muslims. You gotta have more than “ONE” show piece businessman. Or for some reason Bharati Muslims lack the skills required to be a good businessman.

Best regards

hai anti.. Pakistan has as many muslims as india.. then show me one who can beat premji..

[rvikz]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@antiobl

How come you guys stop at Premji? It is now an old story Baboo!

Bharat now has 150 or so millions of Muslims. You gotta have more than “ONE” show piece businessman. Or for some reason Bharati Muslims lack the skills required to be a good businessman.

Best regards

Around Independence, the richest Indian was a Muslim, the Nizam of Hyderabad, a thorough feudal who derived his wealth from inheritance.

Today, the richest Indian on the Forbes’ list is also a Muslim. He is Azim Premji of Wipro Ltd, a star in the Information Technology firmament. Wipro belongs to one of the most modern, internationalised, competitive and technology-intensive sectors of Indian industry. Unlike the Nizam, Premji is wedded to modern values and to promoting education. He earned his millions through entrepreneurship, driven by a strong work ethic.

Another high-performing Indian industry is pharmaceuticals. Among its leaders are Cipla and Wockhardt, both run by forward-looking Muslims. Cipla’s Yusuf Hamied is a Cambridge-educated chemist who runs one of the most dynamic drug research and development outfits anywhere. Cipla produces anti-AIDS drugs at 1/50th the price at which US companies sold them until recently.

Some of India’s topmost advertising professionals are Muslims, including Alyque Padamsee, Mohammed Khan, Muzaffar Ali and Rafeeq Ellias
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2005/16-28feb05-Print-Edition/162802200544.htm

[Blitzkrieg]

Re: Had India not partitioned........

[quote]
Muslims in India are indians now. if they are being suppressed and sidelined, they should take to the streets, lobby, and let the world know what's being done to them. But Pakistan is not responsible for them. Those who remained did so after their own choice.
[/quote]

I think you are oversimplifying the issue because as I have gotten to know, immigration to Pakistan from india was mostly stopped around '52-53 (even APJ Kalam supposedly came to pakistan but didn't find an opportunity and went back).

[BalleBalle]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@sambrialian

Funny, I always thought it was the other way round. Gandhi was always the one rousing the emotions of the crowds, Jinnah’s failures during the middle of career were often attributed to him being so “logical” and unable to get the masses to heed his words.

About Jinnah and Pakistan, I fail to see why Jinnah would go through the pains of building a country from scatch only for personal glory. I’m pretty sure that close to death, people normally tend to worry about their lives rather than what the world think of them or will think of them. If Jinnah was driven by personal/political motivations, he would’ve been more worried about his fast deteriorating health rather than fighting for Pakistan.

And frankly, I do agree with you that Pakistan perhaps should not have been born. The Muslims should’ve lived in a large India. BUT I’m not saying that the Two Nation theory was wrong at all. The reason why I say this, because it was the Muslims who ruled India for the majority of history, did lots of great deeds and left lots of marks in India’s history. Now, we have tp look at India’s history and the Muslim achievements from a distance. They are our achievements and yet they are not. Bharat has benefited from these achievements greatly, an example being the Taj Mahal. The whole world knows about the Taj Mahal but how many people know who built it? What’s even worst is that the Indian Gov’t is trying to escalate Hinduization propaganda and trying to remove the Muslims shades from Indian history.

When we were in Saudi Arabia, my Dad used to have a good friend who was an Indian-American Muslim. He told us a very interesting story about when he and his family went back to India for a visit. His kids obviously didn’t speak Urdu/Hindi very well and could easily be recognized as foreigners. Anyways, the family eventually went to the Taj Mahal for sightseeing. There a guide hooked up with them and started to take them around the place and everything. He started going over the history of the Taj Mahal and spoke in English. He probably assumed that these ppl didn’t know much about anything since they seemed from foreign. The most interesting part was when he talked about who built the Taj Mahal. He credited some Hindu Raja for having built the Taj Mahal. Can you believe the nerve of this guy? At this point my Dad’s friend interrupted him and said to him in Urdu that he always thought it was Shah Jahan who built the Mahal. The guide was shocked and he knew that he was found out. He begged my Dad’s friend not to report the matter to the authorities and everntually conceded that he was paid by the Gov’t to throw such lies at people who seemed foreign and thus, would not know much about Indian history.

And please, before all my Indian friends start doubting my mental health and the authenticiaty of this narration, I’d like to tell you that I’m totally fine and that this incident is true. Because that person had no reason to lie about this and I’m not lying about the Taj Mahal incident. Otherwise I would’ve had to stretch my imagination a lot to come up with such a story. And believe you me, if there’s one thing I’m not, that’s creative.

For all the Indian Muslims out there and Pakistanis, something to think about!

[This message has been edited by sambrialian (edited November 27, 2001).]

Amazing !!! And you want us to buy this cock & bull story… ?

[BalleBalle]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@rvikz

Around Independence, the richest Indian was a Muslim, the Nizam of Hyderabad, a thorough feudal who derived his wealth from inheritance.

Today, the richest Indian on the Forbes’ list is also a Muslim. He is Azim Premji of Wipro Ltd, a star in the Information Technology firmament. Wipro belongs to one of the most modern, internationalised, competitive and technology-intensive sectors of Indian industry. Unlike the Nizam, Premji is wedded to modern values and to promoting education. He earned his millions through entrepreneurship, driven by a strong work ethic.

Another high-performing Indian industry is pharmaceuticals. Among its leaders are Cipla and Wockhardt, both run by forward-looking Muslims. Cipla’s Yusuf Hamied is a Cambridge-educated chemist who runs one of the most dynamic drug research and development outfits anywhere. Cipla produces anti-AIDS drugs at 1/50th the price at which US companies sold them until recently.

Some of India’s topmost advertising professionals are Muslims, including Alyque Padamsee, Mohammed Khan, Muzaffar Ali and Rafeeq Ellias
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2005/16-28feb05-Print-Edition/162802200544.htm

Old news, buddy !! The richest Indian is now steel tycoon LN Mittal who operates out of UK

[Goliko]

Re: Had India not partitioned........

Muslims would still be the rulers of india...India being the biggest muslim country in the world(400 million muslims)...may be some more non-muslims would have accepted islam by now...hence may be 500 million muslims with some 750 million hindus....

ABOVE IS THE ONLY SCENARIO....That would have been accepted to the muslims(muslim league) of Subcontinent THEN(In 1947) & NOW(2005){Hence the creation of Pakistan}...If this is accepted to you(Indians)now.....living under the ruling muslim/islamic party, with Shariah practiced/embraced in India....Pakistanis may think of living with you again....

[mo293]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@Goliko

Muslims would still be the rulers of india…India being the biggest muslim country in the world(400 million muslims)…may be some more non-muslims would have accepted islam by now…hence may be 500 million muslims with some 750 million hindus…

ABOVE IS THE ONLY SCENARIO…That would have been accepted to the muslims(muslim league) of Subcontinent THEN(In 1947) & NOW(2005){Hence the creation of Pakistan}…If this is accepted to you(Indians)now…living under the ruling muslim/islamic party, with Shariah practiced/embraced in India…Pakistanis may think of living with you again…

In a nut shell why don’t you say Islamabad is teh capital or start and cresent flying over delhi!!!

[Goliko]

Re: Had India not partitioned…

@rvikz

Around Independence, the richest Indian was a Muslim, the Nizam of Hyderabad.

Around independence Hyderabad was not a part of India…it is in 1948 that India occupied hyderabad against the will of nizam…