The man who Divided India has barely been around for a fortnight but is already atracting uneasy attention.Pakistani critics have begun objecting for calling jinnah as a father of nation.It’s evidence is their betrayal of Rafiq Zakaria’s potrayal of M. Jinnah as a man driven by political ambition rather that commitement to the ‘Muslim Cause’.While Honorable PM Atal Behari Vajpayee asked to release the Book,asked with a smile,“Do u want to create more trouble bet’n me and Gen. Musharraf?”.
Jinnah has single handedly responsible for pakistan.when asked about this in a inaugaration function of paki assenbly,he said that.his words are"never said that.I am solely responsible for the creation of pakistan and i achieved it through my secreatory aand type writter" note other muslims are expressing their bravado abour their contribution in their speech.jinnah was a brillant lawyer and unrivalled when it come to negotiation.J Nehru always going round and round.Gandhi was too pious and sardar patel was so disgusted with jinnah’s politics that he finally gave.
History is replete with examples of leaders like Hitler,Musolini and franco who by rousing emotions incited the masses.I respect jinnah’s fight for muslims-my qarrel is with his solution.similarly,my quarrel with nehru and patel is that they should never agrred for partition.it they held on for just for one yr,event would have taken diffrent course,lest jinnah has cancer.The congress would have turned around the rest of muslim leadership -large chunk of it has opposed the partiton anyway-without diffuculty.
sadly,nehru lacks the irom of Abrahan lincoln who,even when America was torn by civil war,mantained that the union had to be preserved at all costs.It is because of this America today is mightiest nation of the world.
Recently,Stephen Cohen,one of the most perceptive authority on the South Asia,said to an indian editor,“If India had not been partitined i would have sitting here,not with u,but with a chinese and we would be talking about how to contain this mighty india that straddles all oil route,dominates central asia and so on.”
In the aftermath of partition,most muslin leader,civil servant and much of the middle class ran to pakistan,leaving unpovirished indian muslim in the lurch.Today indian muslim are just givvers of the votes ,living in fear because what is happening in pakistan.jinnah’s two nation theory has raised barriers of hostility which have not yet been removed.
yadda yadda blah blah blah...this is getting old.
Ours is not to reason why;
Ours is but to do and die
Today indian muslim are just givvers of the votes ,living in fear because what is happening in pakistan.jinnah's two nation theory has raised barriers of hostility which have not yet been removed.<<
Well, Pakistan or Pakistanis are not to blame but rather the way partition happened left a lot of bitterness.
On balance I think Indian Muslims are better off I think after Indonesian and Malaysian ones, in terms of general security and self-respect.
Dont disagree in totality but this wouldn't have happened if not for the hostility of Hindu's with Muslims ....
On the other hand, imagine ... the situation could be like Israelites-Palestinians as well, u never know ....
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**
Well, Pakistan or Pakistanis are not to blame but rather the way partition happened left a lot of bitterness.
On balance I think Indian Muslims are better off I think after Indonesian and Malaysian ones, in terms of general security and self-respect.**
[/quote]
Man this has been a day full of laughs.
Aren't you indians always accusing Kabir of being Pakistani and that he should leave india etc etc.
Ours is not to reason why;
Ours is but to do and die
Aren’t you indians always accusing Kabir of being Pakistani and that he should leave india etc etc.<<
What has that got to do with anything?
Frankly I will tell Kabir or anybody else the same thing in politics or otherwise.
If you love Pakistan so much you don’t sit in India and whine. You will migrate
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
The same goes for everything. Like if you South Indian food you will go have it, you don’t go to a Punjabi Dhaba and whine IDLI!! IDLI!!
And you just said before I think Indian Muslims are better off I think after Indonesian and Malaysian ones
How are they better off if they don’t agree with the Indian policies and are asked by Hindus to leave the country?
Ours is not to reason why;
Ours is but to do and die
How are they better off if they don’t agree with the Indian policies and are asked by Hindus to leave the country?<<
Who said they have to agree with what the Indian Government says?
They are free to dissentand that goes for Hindus and Sikhs as well.
All I am saying is simple. If you don’t like India that much and are so concerned about any other country just pack your bags and leave. One more less to worry about
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
Don’t open your umbrella in India when it rains elsewhere, like say Pakistan
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
And the same goes for Pakistan too or any other. If you like the country stay in it!!
hey brothers,
that's not something i triggerd discussions for.partition has bitter memory for both the countries.but now question arises that should we allow others like US,china take advantage of enmity.it is well known that we both spent huge amount on what is happening in kashmir.there should be stop for this.if we can make compromise,we can be world leaders.that's why i quoted statement of cohen.
and,let u all know,it is not a ? of hindu,muslim or sikhs. in india,we all r treated same before constitution and govt.There r no something like attrocites against any one.all are indians before their respective religion.if anything is happening againt anyone,its just what they deserve.remember,minorities are safest in india than any other country.
and hey LooksCankill, isreali-palestian situation can not happen in south asia lest it is totally unconcerned.
Have you seen divided families - those have some menbers on'that side'.I have seen and there grief can only be seen and felt-can't be explained.
I once saw a girl(muslim) in our neighbourhood in Delhi who was crying as if being taken to a slaughter house.She had been married to a Pakistani groom and the day had come when she had to leave for Pakistan.Why she was so griefed and crying was that nobody was sure when she would be able to visit her family back in Delhi again.I was so sad and almost wept with her.
Why do we have such a situation where neighbours are not able to visit each other and when would this situation improve.We have to start the work now,if we want our future generation to live in peace.
I hate even seeing the ugly name of Sardar Patel written anywhere. That b*****d was the person behind the indepedence of my family's homeland, Hyderabad Deccan, being crushed, the nation annexed into India, and its great wealth being dispersed.
[quote]
Originally posted by Deekay:
Have you seen divided families - those have some menbers on'that side'.I have seen and there grief can only be seen and felt-can't be explained.
I once saw a girl(muslim) in our neighbourhood in Delhi who was crying as if being taken to a slaughter house.She had been married to a Pakistani groom and the day had come when she had to leave for Pakistan.Why she was so griefed and crying was that nobody was sure when she would be able to visit her family back in Delhi again.I was so sad and almost wept with her.
Why do we have such a situation where neighbours are not able to visit each other and when would this situation improve.We have to start the work now,if we want our future generation to live in peace.
[/quote]
Oh please. Stop being so dramatic. There are plenty of cases in my family where a girl from either Pakistan or India has married someone from the other side of my family. Almost always, India citizens in my family are able to regularly visit Pakistan to see family members in Karachi, and most Pakistani members of my family have little trouble in going to India. The only person in my family who has problems with getting a visa to enter India is my grandfather - a retired senior Army officer who participated in 2 wars against India, and so India's reluctance to grant him entry is perhaps understandable.
[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited November 27, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
I hate even seeing the ugly name of Sardar Patel written anywhere. That b**d was the person behind the indepedence of my family's homeland, Hyderabad Deccan, being crushed, the nation annexed into India, and its great wealth being dispersed.*
[/quote]
how can create little states within india
purely based on religen.
india abolished all princly states and became
republic. dont try revive kingdoms
[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited November 27, 2001).]
There are plenty of cases in my family where a girl from either Pakistan or India has married someone from the other side of my family. Almost always, India citizens in my family are able to regularly visit Pakistan to see family members in Karachi, and most Pakistani members of my family have little trouble in going to India. The only person in my family who has problems with getting a visa to enter India is my grandfather - a retired senior Army officer who participated in 2 wars against India, and so India’s reluctance to grant him entry is perhaps understandable.<<
So whoever is left in India regard themslves as Indians or what ?
As for Hyderabad, Nizam’s Hyderabad is long gone. Right in front of my eyes.Good riddance
Hi Madz,
Nice to know that you are from a Hyderabadi family. I dont think Hyderabad lost anything by asceeding to India. There are mosques everywhere and urdu is almost official language there. Its member of Parliament in Muslim. Indian Cricket captain Azza from from Hyderabad. Last years Miss Asia Pacific was a Hyderabadi muslim lass. Another muslim girl from same city (Sania Mirza) is national women's tennis champion entered into and There are tonnes of other women muslim actresses from that area (including Tabbu).
After Hyderabad became hub of IT industry scores of muslim boys came up in life. Of course 80% of muslims are still auto-rishaw drivers or chai-walla's that's only because they do not show interest in modern education. But nobody is stopping them in India.
It these people would have migrated to Pakistan they would not have made it !
Taurus,
just having popular cricket players and movie stars from a state doesn't mean it's natives are flourishing.
How does it compare with e.g. a state like Kerala when we talk about literacy, birth rate, infant mortality, poverty, corruption, law 'n order?
What's the degree of industrialization and information technology, and higher education infrastructure compared to the rest of Indian cities.. e.g. Bangalore?
and lastly, is belonging to a minority religion in anyway hampering their progress in any of the above?
[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited November 27, 2001).]
How does it compare with e.g. a state like Kerala when we talk about literacy, birth rate, infant mortality, poverty, corruption, law 'n order?<<
Well you picked up the wrong state Pakistaniabroad.
Except for literacy Kerala seems to be lagging behind in everything, especially IT.
IT ranks are Bangalore,Madras and Hyderabad!!
Still Muslims don't face any kind of discrimination even on a social basis
I mean discrimination is of two kinds 1.State sponsored like Jews under Nazis and Slavery etc., and 2. Social like so-called low-caste treatment in India.
I don't think Muslims of Hyderabad suffer either of those.
For the rest of it, true enough. Majority of them do menial jobs but not because anybody is actively blocking them.
Pakistani Abroad,
Kerala is officially 100% literate state and Kerala muslims are very different from other muslims. They speak local languages and many of their customs are similar to Hindus.
Kerala is not industrialised that much because very strong communist presence. Labor unions are very strong which makes life difficult for any industries !!
As far as Kerala muslims are concerned they are very progressive. May be because of high literacy rate. Kerala has about 25% muslims and 20% Christians.
India will always have a huge inferiority complex with Pakistan.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Pakistan’s ceation was the best thing ever happend in History.
Pakistan's creation was the best thing ever happend...soo true...Imagine another 150 million fanatic muslims who fight for Taliban, in Chechenya, in Kashmir...a big nightmare...
When I think of partition, I heave a sigh of relief as I do at 6:30 am every morning after I expunge some unwanted stuff, down the drain.
What a relief!