Guru Nanak and Makkah

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

Guru Nanak wanted to bridge a relationship between the hindus and muslims in his region. He studied both faiths and he did travel around the Islamic world as well as to Makkah. By doing so, he created a following for himself in which both hindus and muslims respected his teachings. He did not want to create his own religion, but rather create a bond between hindus and muslims and show them that humanity comes first. That is why "He asked the Muslims to be true Muslims and the Hindus to be true Hindus," because if they followed the true essence of their religions it would show them that there is only one god and that their different manifestations are different paths all leading to one supreme being. For those familiar with Sufism, you can clearly see that Sufisim along with certain Hindu teachings, shaped Guru Nanaks core beliefs. He did not convert to Islam but he was not a Hindu either. No one has witnessed his declaration of the Shahada and this is for a obvious reason. If he converted to Islam, the Hindus would never follow him because he would be contradicting himself. He never chose one faith but rather embraced all faiths in order to show that there is a common essence and message of Humanity (refer to Baba Bulleh Shah).

The Granth Sahib is a compilation of Hymns and prayers that were compiled and mostly written by the Gurus who succeeded Nanakji, however; there were contributions made by some muslim sufis and hindu saints. Modern day Sikhism was crystalized during the reign of the tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, who inspired the Sikh guerilla movement against Muslim rule. His contributions to Sikhism are immense but unfortunetly very much contradictory to Guru Nanak's teachings. Guru Nanak did not want there to be any faith such as Sikhism, he simply wanted to preach humanism and the spiritual connection between all human beings.

My CM
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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

Well the Koran is also worded on the word of one man who claimed to be getting messages straight from God. This itself is not very convincing, especially when most of what he said seems to be copied straight out of biblical and jewish stories....(No offense intended to anyone).

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I know of old Sikh women telling my aunty that the Kaaba contains Guru Nanak's shoes!!!

They make some crazy stuff up.

Guru Nanak was never a Muslim.

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Guru nanak was a pious muslim.

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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

Dear brother, for a moment if I ask you, " How many" attributes you can give to the Ulmighty creator to describe HIS qualities. I haven't met a single person who can give more than 12 attributes, like "The powerful" "The Kind" " The Generous" " The Merciful" "The .......? How much can a human mind think of ???
You got to accept that it is a miracle of "ONLY" Quran that there are** 99** Different yet beautiful attributes given to Allah, which people all over the world accept to be a genious no one could have ever done in mankind.

Now if you think that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) think and wrote them himself than you are accepting him to be Super humanly genious to have invented 99 uniquely beautiful attributes of Allah. ( Which he denies and says that Allah taught him those words. Why would a person not accept such a GREAT compliment of having done a super human work and say it to be someone else's work)

Secondly, if you think he copied any of them from the bible or jewish stories, than I am sorry to say that bible and jewish stories dont contain more than 12 attributes towards their ultimate God. IF the prophet Muhammad (saw) wanted to copy even "ONE" attribute from both of these books, he would have copied the most commonly used attribute in these two books which is "The FATHER" and GUESS WHAT ??? This attribute is "not" mentioned in the 99 attributes mentioned in the Quran :)

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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

The fact! Good post.

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^ Think again brother before agreeing to it. Such comments regarding Islam don't suit atleast to a muslim believer.

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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

Yes it is a famous tradition. And most of Sikhs and certain Muslims believe it to be true. The story or legend about Baba Guru Nanak, resting with his feet towards the qibla goes like this;

  1. At some time during his visit/pilgrimage?/sight seeing? to Makkah, Baba Guru Nanak took a nap/rest with his feet towards Holy Kaaba. At this occasion, another person/pilgrim/scholar/alim etc woke him up. When he got up, the other person told him to fold his legs to sleep with his feet away from the direction of Holy Kaaba. When Baba Guru Nanak asked for the reason, the other person told him that he should not direct his feet towards the Holy Kaaba as its Bait-ullah or House of Allah. To this Baba Guru Nanak replied with another question. The qustion went on like this, "You are telling me to move my feet away from the the dirction of Holy Kaaba because it is the House of Allah. Can you tell me any other thing which does not belong to HIM? Can you tell me any dirction where He is not present? After hearing this, the legend says, the other person went away.

  2. The second question that why would he go over there is hard to answer. Some people even say that actually he had converted to Islam but did not declare it.

Some say that he was a believer in One GOD and was a Mohid-e-La Shara i.e., one who believes in ONE TRUE ALLAH but does not claim to be a MUSLIM.

Some say that he was very subtly bringing Hindus from a Polytheism to Monotheism. To this he succeeded and as a further step he wanted to bring them to a point where they would believe in the Prophet-hood of Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) but died before this aim. To substantiate this point many people bring forward all the praises which certain Sikhs have for Hazrat Muhammad (SAW). A pre-partition Sikh Lawer Dr. G. Singh Dara even wrote a book on Holy Prophet (SAW) by the name Rasool-e-Arabi.

Wassalam.

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Dont the qadianis primary believe that he was a muslim?....

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It does not tell us that sun is also a start. It states that "Shams" is a different thing and "Nujoom" are different. It gives an impression that earth is flat and the sky is "over". It tells that there is only one "ard" and does not tell that there are millions of "ards" like this in the universe.

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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

Qadianis appeared on the scene somewhere around 1870s, while Baba Guru Nanak died in probably 1530s. Moreover the Sikh rule by Ranjeet Singh and his clan also predates Qadianis. It roughly remained for 50 years from 1790s to 1840s.

The actual statement can be rephrased that qadianis also (not primarily) believe that he was a Muslim.

Regards.

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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

on the contrary thou when i say primary i mean its the qadiyanis that believe he was a muslim. The statement/fact that he had a cloak which was covered in Quranic verse and which is not shown to sikhs is also a statement that a Qadiani representative reportedley made!

Neither the hindus nor the Sikh themselves believe he was a muslim. In fact the only thing tying the Guru with anything muslim was he disciple, Mardana.

In any case Allahu Alam.

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Dear brother. Tell me how many times science has contradicted itself in the last 1000 years and then think if the Quran has ever contradicted itself even once ?

I am sure 100 years from now a scientist would be saying something about science quite different than what we think today. Human has not even explored 3 % of the universe.

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Ok, let us (muslims) believe you that he was a muslim. Unfortunately his followers (Sikhs) do not believe that, cause if they were, they would be muslims, not sikhs.

So instead of convincing us, why dont you convice Sikhs, so they convert to Islam.

Case close (unless you start arguing that Sikhs are also Muslims)

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Who would like to kindly answer the following questions one by one ?

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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

There is a term used in Urdu/Punjabi which goes like this “charday suraj de pujari”.

One day Allah :swt: will clear your sight and it will be as sharp as a magnifying glass. I pray to Allah :swt: that this not be on the day of judgement but before that so it gives you enough time to repent. Because if its on the day of judgement than it will be too late and as we all (Muslims) know that is the day when all the questions will be answered BUT the doors of repantance will be closed for ever. Now here’s a translation and a beautiful recitaion of Surah Qaf from the Holly Quran which state the same message and with this I close my case here, rest is up to you as my part was to inform you. May Allah :swt: guide you (and others) to the right path. InshAllah.

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A lot of the verses in the Sikh book, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was composed by Muslim poets, like Muslims the Sikhs only believe in one God, they most commonly refer to him as Waheguru (Wonderful Lord/Teacher) but in their book the Guru Granth Sahib they also refer to Him by Islamic-Arabic terms such as Allaah, Rabb, Rehman, Raheem, Kareem, Sahib and terms such as Parvardigar and Khuda which they got through Muslims... Some of the Sikh attributes of God are the same as Islaam others the same as Hinduism.

Just like we have a creed which is "Laa Ilaaha il-Allaah (No Deity But God)".

Their creed in the GGS is the Mool Mantra which says "Ik Onkaar, Sat Naam, Kartaa Purakh, Nirbhao, Nirvair, Akaal Moorat, Ajoonee Saibhan, Gur Parsaad... (One Universal Creator God, The Name Is Truth, Creative Being Personified, No Fear, No Hatred, Image Of The Timeless One, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent, [Known] By Guru's Grace...)"

The Sikh concept of Ik-Onkar comes from the Hindu concept of Om which represents the Hindu trinity (Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu) but the Sikh Gurus (teachers) rejected the Hindu meaning attributed to it that God manifests himself in three demi-gods and instead taught that Ik-Onkar represents the attributes of one absolute God.

The Sikh Gurus (Prophets) often mocked Hinduism and said:

The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way. As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols. They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind. The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them. But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? (GGS, Ang, 556)

I have killed hill Rajas (kings) who are bent on mischief. They are stone idol worshippers, I break idols and I worship one Lord. (Guru Gobind Singh)

Wherever I go, I find water and stones. You are totally pervading and permeating in all. I have searched through all the Vedas and the Puraanas (Hindu scriptures). I would go there, only if the Lord were not here. (Bhagat Ramanand Ji, Ang 1195)

Their service is useless. Those who fall at the feet of a stone god their work is wasted in vain… The stone does not speak; it does not give anything to anyone. Such religious rituals are useless; such service is fruitless. (GGS, Ang, 1160)

In your home is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. You wash your stone gods and worship them. You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers. Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them. Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. (GGS, Ang, 1240)

So what if you worshipped statues, monuments or pictures? Worshiping these, your soul has been tired (meaning you are close to death) but you have not found anything. You donate rice rice, you burn joss-stick, wick lamps or Franklin-cense, you burn oil lamps and perform many other rituals but that statue does not get you anything because it has not life. Hey idiot! What do you get out of performing these rituals? What can a stone give you? If this stone had life, then it would have been able to give you something. Think this over and start reciting God’s praises, then you will know the right path and you will know that without God, you cannot get away from this cycle of birth and death. (Shabad Hazaray, Guru Gobind Singh)

The hollow religion became fruitless and O being ! you have lost millions of years by worshipping the stones; you will not get power with the worship of stones; the strength and glory will only decrease; In this way, the time was lost uselessly and nothing was achieved and you were not ashamed; O foolish intellect ! You have not remembered the Lord and have wasted your life in vain. (33 Swayeas, Guru Gobind Singh)

Those who serve Shiva and Brahma cannot find the limits of God. (GGS 516)

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As for the story about Guru Nanak visiting Mecca then I’ll have to say I don’t believe it is true, I don’t mean to offend anyone but NO Muslim believes that Allaah is contained within the Kaabah, the Kaabah is a Temple like a Dharamsal or Gurduwara is to Sikhs, we face in it’s direction during prayer and visit it because it was the first Temple to be built on earth to worship One God and it’s a show of unity and submission to One God when all Muslims together face one direction on the centre of the world, we don’t even think about or mention the Kaabah/Temple during our prayers, our prayers are directed to God alone who is transcendent, imageless, beyond human-conception…

Sikhs assuming that Muslims worship the Kaabah because we face it during prayers is as silly as Muslims assuming Sikhs worship the Guru Granth Sahib instead of Waheguru when Sikhs do Matha Tek (prostration) in front of it and sit facing it during Gurbani.

Sikhs assuming that we worship the Kaabah when we visit/pilgrimage to it is as silly as Muslims assuming Sikhs worship Harmandir-Sahib or Panja-Sahib when they visit those temples to pray there. When we visit/pilgrimage to the Kaabah we go there to pray to God not to the Kaabah itself just as Sikhs don’t pray to the Guruduwara they go to but to Waheguru.

Sikhs assuming that Muslims believe God is limited to the Kaabah just because we consider it sacred and don’t desecrate it is as stupid as Muslims assuming that Sikhs believe Waheguru is literally contained in the direction of the Guru Granth Sahib when Sikhs don’t stand on it, put it on the floor or point their feet towards but instead place it on fancy beds, cushions at the Gurdwara and at home in separate AC rooms called Baba Ji Da Kamra.

Anyway the rule about not pointing ones feet in the direction of the Holy Kaabah is not in any of our scriptures, it’s more of a Indo-Pak Muslim practice… In the early days of Islaam the Prophet Muhammed’s :saw: companions would climb onto the roof of the Kaabah and stand on top of it to call people to prayer.

Post Your Bakra
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Re: Guru Nanak and Makkah

The argument was regarding the faith of Guru Nanak. Not for Gurudas man..

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But Guru Nank was the Sikhism founder. Did I miss something here. Who was Gurudas