Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
This problem is not going away as long as people keep finding excuses for this behaviour. Education is a must but it's not lack of it which is causing all this hatred in Pakistan. People were way less educated in the 50's and 60's and yet we didn't have this kind of intolerance. Some don't like to admit it but this intolerance is coming directly from hatemongers (aka molvies).
The mullahs have never been a positive force for Pakistan. The rise of intolerance is directly related to the rise of the mullah in Pakistan. The more powerful they get, the more intolerant the society becomes.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Abay Jahils look at Europe. In the past 10 years there has been a mark rise of neo-nazi and right wing anti-Islam and Jewish groups. They have won elections, they have formed governments and more importantly they have received increasing public support for their policies. From Spain all the way to Poland. And I bet this is all because of our Desi Mullahs on why European society is increasing intolerant of foreigners.
There is no one single cause for the intolerance its a host of factors. The only problem is that the ABCDs want to blame the Mullahs because they don’t know anything else.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Allah Ashrafi sahab ki hifazat karay.
Its easier to point out the causes, harder to pin down the solutions. Long-term, education, economic development, protection and promotion of women's rights, protection and promotion of minorities.
Short term, bans on death/takfir fatwas, arrest molvies/organizations that advocate assassination or terrorism against minorities, repeal/fix blasphemy laws, provide more police protection to minorities, conduct more surveillance of certain madrassas.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Which organizations advocate the death of Molvies, and how many molvies are killed by such organizations and people? Usually the people killing molvies are prompted by molvies of other sects, so they would be included in what I said.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Look at half the people in this thread. They would cheer if a Molvi was grilled and BBQed. But then again so would you so your response is not at all surprising. I am so sorry. I should have said Yes we need a Patriot Act like in the US. We have limited civil liberties at it is but we should limit them even more
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
If a molvie is grilled and BBQed or if any organization advocates or attempts the same then gripe about it. Its not really a pressing concern. While many have died as a direct consequence of the fatway of mullay, the same is not true with respect to any talk about mullay on these forums, or in any organization that I am aware of.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Illegal detention? Of whom exactly. How did you infer that any detention of molvies blaring death threats would be illegal? Most assuredly it should be done in a completely above board way, either through existing laws if possible, or through new laws that prohibit molvies from advocating assassination or terrorism. You may wish to regard death threats that lead to murder as a civil liberty, I dont.
The one point you do have is with respect to surveillance. Bear in mind though that totalitarianism has the word 'total' in it. Advocating the surveillance of a few specific madrassas is hardly totalitarian.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Illegal detention? Of whom exactly. How did you infer that any detention of molvies blaring death threats would be illegal? Most assuredly it should be done in a completely above board way, either through existing laws if possible, or through new laws that prohibit molvies from advocating assassination or terrorism. You may wish to regard death threats that lead to murder as a civil liberty, I dont.
The one point you do have is with respect to surveillance. Bear in mind though that totalitarianism has the word 'total' in it. Advocating the surveillance of a few specific madrassas is hardly totalitarian.
Good to know you follow the same line of arguments and thinking Bush and the republicans had for the Patriot act. On this issue its a waste to argue the finer points of civil liberties and the importance of supporting them if not expanding them from Pakistan with those who would happily support 1984esque policies in Pakistan.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Right, because incitement to murder laws, with a history dating back to the 1800s are the same as the patriot act. Ooh I cant say kill the ahmedies from a loudspeaker.. what is this 1984???
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
sigh Ravage you won't get it because of your bias. You link incitement to murder laws yet exclude people from it as an example the question I raised about Molvis.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
Not on any basis that would be relevant to 1984 etc. With respect to that you simply havent been able to show that Molvies are under any threat from whatever has been said on this forum or by any organizations. Perhaps you have heard of the harm principle.
Re: Growing intolerance in Pakistani society, What is the solution?
lets see. A few things that can be done, in an ideal world that would clear a path towards relative stability in our emotional attitudes.
~ ban sunni shariat elements from the government. This way hardline/extremist sunni groups may not abuse them with the consent of the law. If the law doesn't favor sunni shariat, or specifcally bharelvi version of shariat or wahabi...then no one has monopoly. No one can be persecuted, without having a realistic chance of fighting back.
~ mandate that anyone that wants to be a mullah, MUST have a masters, besides their religous training. Most ismaili leaders, shia mullahs, and also sufi mullahs from north africa are required. This provides barriers to entry by paindo production, and encourages sensible leadership.
~ ultimately, inserting the barrier of education into ANY and EVERY position of leadership will definitely encourage education.
These are the core things i can think of right at the moment.
