Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

[Muzna]

I thought I saw a thread on this news item but I can’t find it now…

Here’s the latest:

Groups protest Muslim prayers at Toronto public school
2011/07/25 | Michael Talbot, CityNews.ca

Several faith-based groups protested outside the Toronto District School Board’s headquarters Monday over Muslim prayers taking place in a Toronto school.

For three years, hundreds of students have been praying in the cafeteria at Valley Park Middle School during their lunch hour. The school doesn’t run or pay for the service.

TDSB director of education Chris Spence said the decision to hold the prayer sessions was made in consultation with the school community, and no one from the community has complained.

The service is operated by members of the Valley Park community, and was un-opposed by parents of other students at the school before Ron Banerjee, claiming to represent a group called the Canadian Hindu Advocacy, began complaining earlier this year.

“When you have 400 students coming in and out of class…it’s extremely disruptive,” said Banerjee, who organized Monday’s protest. “It’s discriminatory. It raises lots of questions in terms of ‘Why are Muslims alone being allowed to do this?’ This is part of the Islam-ification of society.”

Members of the Jewish Defence League of Canada and the Christian Heritage Group also took part in the protest.

80 per cent of Valley Park students are Muslim, and the school began the Friday services to prevent students from missing classes to pray at a nearby mosque.

The TDSB defended the sessions, saying it’s simply trying to accommodate the religious beliefs of its many Muslim students, as mandated by the Ontario Human Rights Code.

It said the issue is not one about religion in schools but about religious accommodation.

“We have a predominantly Muslim population in the student body, so the parents were asking for a space where we can provide for Friday prayers,” board trustee, Shaun Chen previously told CityNews.

Banerjee doesn’t buy it.

“If they want to accommodate the Muslim students, they get a one hour lunch break, the mosque is five minutes away, they can just tell them to pack a lunch and during your one-hour break go off to the mosque.”

In the meantime, Canada’s largest Hindu group, Canadian Hindu Network, says the views of the Canadian Hindu Advocacy are not representative of mainstream Hindus.

You have to watch the full video at the bottom of the article:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/144877--groups-to-protest-muslim-prayers-at-toronto-school

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

So I wanted to find out a bit more about this Ron Banerjee person and his two man parade at the protest…
a quick google search revealed this:

The group that he represents:

canhindu.com

The group that denies knowing of Banerjee’s existence and distancing themselves from Banerjee’s position:
http://www.hinducanadian.com/index.html

[Mirch]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

So this is what I found on his website as Their core values My comments are in Red.

**We believe in unity, diversity, and tolerance.

*But we will not tolerate Muslim Friday Prayer in a school and it is for the sake of unity. Not to create a rift in a community where nobody objected for last 3 years.*

    This is why our directors and members include Hindus  hailing from many          different parts of India. We also include Hindus from the Caribbean,          Malaysia, and elsewhere.

    We even have non- Hindu directors from different communities, including          the Jewish, Serbian, and Anglo-Saxon ethnicities. 

*But we do not have Muslim Directors because ......................*

    Inter-faith events and alliances are an important goal for us. Because          our organization is a beacon of hope for all communities and groups who          share our passion for merit, freedom, and democracy.

***We do not include Muslims in inter faith events but we protest against their religious practices because ............................*
*Monh pay ram ram , baghal main churi. *

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

I honestly would like this Ron person to come here and address some of these questions.
The thing that gets me the most is that come September this guy wants to hold protests at the school every friday...they want to picket there.......imagine the poor little children that will be traumatized by this.

[Marmalade]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

*EVER WONDER WHAT CANADA"S LEADING HINDU ADVOCACY LOOKS LIKE? READ ON:

We are a national organization of professionals, most of whom have left other groups, … to join together and form an entity that really stands up for traditional Canadian and mainstream Hindu values.

We advocate for Canadian Hindus, and we stand up for Canada, traditional Canadian values, and democratic principles.

Hindus have the highest per capita income of all ethnic groups in North America, are among the best educated, and constitute the majority community of the world’s largest democracy / emergent superpower (INDIA).

Hindu civilization gave rise to the world’s oldest language (SANSKRIT), from which all European languages (including English and French) developed. Science, medicine, and mathematics developed in Hindu India helped Europeans build Western civilization.

Standing up for Canada means supporting Hindu interests. We are together because Canada needs us!!

Historical Hindu and traditional Canadian values must be defended. An attack on one constitutes an attack on the other. ALL CANADIANS MUST STAND UP FOR HINDUS and HINDU VALUES.

Canadian values are endangered by the enemies of Canada, who use the media, education system, and politicians to spread false stereotypes about India and Hindus.

We believe in multi-faith initiatives with groups and people who share our values of democracy, liberty, and merit-based success. This includes the Jewish, Serbian, and other communities.

We support fellow democracies such as INDIA, ISRAEL, AMERICA, and TAIWAN.

Our friends and partners in various communities will work with us to shape and build a better Canada, purged of malign and negative influences.

With the skills and experience brought in by our members and directors, we have formed the leading mainstream Hindu political and media lobby in Canada.

From political lobbying to media advocacy to business seminars on ethical investment, we have the skills and drive to deliver results.

JOIN US TO BUILD A BETTER FUTURE

*The above is from their Facebook page. :rolleyes:

and these links…wth is up with this guy :S

http://www.indocanadaoutlook.com/0410_slam_the_doors_on_immigration.htmlhttp://www.canhindu.com/veiledthreats.pdf

[sharaabee]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

While this Bannerjee guy obviously has his own littel agendas which I don't agree with..... I don't support any religious activities in schools. It's just divisive. I don't want our kids to grow up with the "us" and "them" mentality.

[BarbieCue]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

I don't want our kids to grow up with the "us" and "them" mentality.

Which is exactly why people promote multiculturalism and diversity. There's no one school for black kids and one for the white kids. Despite enrolling all ethnic groups in one single place, you cannot take away the basic inevitable differences which include things like skin colour, nationality, accents, *and *religious beliefs. I'm going to be different to a white/black kid whether I pray 5 times a day or not.

[sharaabee]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Which is exactly why people promote multiculturalism and diversity. There's no one school for black kids and one for the white kids. Despite enrolling all ethnic groups in one single place, you cannot take away the basic inevitable differences which include things like skin colour, nationality, accents, *and *religious beliefs. I'm going to be different to a white/black kid whether I pray 5 times a day or not.

Agree and disagree.

Of course everyone should be accommodated but to a reasonable level. Letting one religion hold special prayers INSIDE the school CAFEwith an external cleric EVERY FRIDAY is ridiculous.

The Ontario school system outlawed Christianity from its public schools more than a decade ago.. special arrangements should not be made now for muslims sikhs or hindus.

[kali_billi]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

if no religion is allowed to pray or practice their religion in public schools what makes us so special or important?

[BarbieCue]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

@sharaabee

Agree and disagree.

Of course everyone should be accommodated but to a reasonable level. Letting one religion hold special prayers INSIDE the school CAFEwith an external cleric EVERY FRIDAY is ridiculous.

The Ontario school system outlawed Christianity from its public schools more than a decade ago.. special arrangements should not be made now for muslims sikhs or hindus.

1: No one is asking them for special arrangements. The school isn’t paying for the Friday prayers neither running them. Muslims very quietly offer their prayers over lunch time so no one is asking for a special time arrangement either. The only thing the students were expecting from the school was a little clean corner somewhere inside the building where they could pray so as to not waste time walking to and from the mosque and the school happily agreed for the convenience of the 80% muslim students. If some people have suddenly become so allergic to it, muslims can even pray at the side of the road. That’s not an issue. I’m not saying muslims MUST be allowed to pray inside the school with an external imam. Neither of the two matter. The issue is why all of a sudden such fuss is being created? The question is why no one from inside the school, none of the parents, no one from the community ever objected to it if it was indeed causing some harm? Why this guy representing some hindu group has a problem with muslim prayers all of a sudden? Why are muslims being targeted yet again? Why are people joining this loonie even after he has said things like “islamification of the society”? Why are people supporting islamophobic views? He has every right to promote his own religion however he wants to but it is seriously very very retarded to put down another religion because you’re scared it’s taking over! This is what’s annoying me, not the policy of the school system with regards to prayers n all.

2: What do you mean “outlawed christianity”? When a kid starts praying to Jesus, what do you do? Tell him “sorry kid, can’t pray here”? What do you do when a kid carries a picture of a bhagwaan and prays to it every so often? Put a gun to his head and ask him to hand over the picture of his God? No other religion demands mandatory organised prayers like Islam, we don’t just wake up and say “hello god, help me today”, we offer organised prayers in an organised manner. So duhh muslim students are going to be somewhat different but even then how is thisany weirder than this or this? The christians outlawed their religion and don’t want to hold a mass in the school? Fine. The Hindus don’t want to arrange poojas? Fine and no one is stopping them if they do want to. But muslims can’t really choose whether they want to offer prayers or not, it is mandatory for them!

3: If it is really that hard to co-exist and to let people pray in this day n age, they should really cut the crap and stop boasting of democracy, unity, diversity, freedom, tolerance and all that jazz.

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Very well said BarbieCue.

sharabee.....when you say everyone should be accommodated but to a reasonable level......how do you define "reasonable"?

[Mirch]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Don't give in to pressure of this racist guys rant. He is an attention seeker. His association was looking for 15 minutes of fame and he found it.

[Khan15]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Is this been resolved

[sharaabee]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

@BarbieCue

1: No one is asking them for special arrangements. The school isn’t paying for the Friday prayers neither running them. Muslims very quietly offer their prayers over lunch time so no one is asking for a special time arrangement either. The only thing the students were expecting from the school was a little clean corner somewhere inside the building where they could pray so as to not waste time walking to and from the mosque and the school happily agreed for the convenience of the 80% muslim students. If some people have suddenly become so allergic to it, muslims can even pray at the side of the road. That’s not an issue. I’m not saying muslims MUST be allowed to pray inside the school with an external imam. Neither of the two matter. The issue is why all of a sudden such fuss is being created? The question is why no one from inside the school, none of the parents, no one from the community ever objected to it if it was indeed causing some harm? Why this guy representing some hindu group has a problem with muslim prayers all of a sudden? Why are muslims being targeted yet again? Why are people joining this loonie even after he has said things like “islamification of the society”? Why are people supporting islamophobic views? He has every right to promote his own religion however he wants to but it is seriously very very retarded to put down another religion because you’re scared it’s taking over! This is what’s annoying me, not the policy of the school system with regards to prayers n all.

2: What do you mean “outlawed christianity”? When a kid starts praying to Jesus, what do you do? Tell him “sorry kid, can’t pray here”? What do you do when a kid carries a picture of a bhagwaan and prays to it every so often? Put a gun to his head and ask him to hand over the picture of his God? No other religion demands mandatory organised prayers like Islam, we don’t just wake up and say “hello god, help me today”, we offer organised prayers in an organised manner. So duhh muslim students are going to be somewhat different but even then how is thisany weirder than this or this? The christians outlawed their religion and don’t want to hold a mass in the school? Fine. The Hindus don’t want to arrange poojas? Fine and no one is stopping them if they do want to. But muslims can’t really choose whether they want to offer prayers or not, it is mandatory for them!

3: If it is really that hard to co-exist and to let people pray in this day n age, they should really cut the crap and stop boasting of democracy, unity, diversity, freedom, tolerance and all that jazz.

I agree that this Bannerjee guy definitely has the wrong agenda. The regular hindu organization has distanced themselves from it. The reporter did a great job making him look like a fool cuz he could not find any hindus around him supporting him.

“this is mandatory for us” is a slippery slope. Burkha is mandatory for some. Public punishments are mandatory for some. That’s retarded. Religion should not enjoy complete immunity to whatever it wants.

No christian mass at school, no hindu poojas at school = no mass muslim prayers at school. I’m good with that logic.

You need to read up on this specific case a bit more as some of your points are incorrect. The school IS making special time arrangements for these students which walk in class late. Same with location (cafeteria).

If people from any religion are soo hell bent on following aspects of their religion that conflict with multicultural western norms.. then they should leave western countries and move back to Islamic countries. It’s pretty simple. Its ridiculous that they want to live in secular western societies.. and then use secular values (freedom of religion) and manipulate and stretch it to its limits to live their version(s) of islamic life. How hypocritical?

[BarbieCue]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

^ No I'm not going to give any more time to Banerjee's bull because to me this shouldn't even be an issue/news.

[sheyn]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Another Breivik in the making ?

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

…

In the Canadian case, the Muslims’ freedom to worship was challenged.

For three years Muslim students of the Valley Park Middle School in Toronto have prayed on Friday noon in congregation. Canadian schools, universities, private offices and government institutions routinely make “reasonable accommodation” to meet the religious obligations of all Canadians. Sikhs, for example, are allowed to wear the kirpan. Prayer and/or meditation rooms are also provided at Canadian airports.

Suddenly, the Canadian Hindu Advocacy objected to the use of school premises for prayers. A Jewish Defense League spokesperson called for monitoring the prayers to ensure that the imam conducting such services doesn’t preach intolerance. The president of Canadian Muslim Congress expressed concern that Ismailis and Ahmadis might not be invited to such prayers because they are not viewed as mainstream Muslims while another CMC official objected to girls praying in the back rows. CMC has said it might sue the school board. The International Campaign against Shariah Courts leader called the service a “political statement” by Muslims. A Canadian Council of Muslim Women official also called for monitoring the prayers.

Friday congregation prayers are obligatory on Muslims. All that the school did was to enable Muslim students to follow their faith. This is no more a political statement than are services at synagogues, churches or temples. As for “monitoring,” media, students and politicians of different faiths often attend Muslim Friday prayers at mosques to listen, exchange views or to just meet Muslims. No Muslim objects.

There is no evidence that Ismaili or Ahmadi students at the Toronto school, if any, wanted to join the prayers and were refused. Ismailis pray at their own jamaatkhanas and their prayer services are reserved only for Ismailis. Ahmadis visit mainstream mosques for funeral services of friends. They never pray, however, behind Shiite or Sunni imams. They pray only behind an Ahmadi who owes allegiance to Ahmadi prophets and caliphs. Mainstream Muslims, Ismailis and Ahmadis maintain excellent relations in Canada. But they pray among their own and, like Canadians of other faiths, neither join nor invite others for prayers. As to the claim that women have to pray in the back rows, this argument could be used to ban Muslim prayers throughout Canada — and the practices of many other faiths.

Most Canadians cherish freedom and do not want agitators to sow divisions and acrimony. Christian groups, the Hindu Canadian Alliance, the World Sikh Organization and Jewish Community Council support the right of Muslims, and all other Canadians, to freedom of religion. In many cities Muslims prayed at churches, at their invitation, before their mosques were built.

The Toronto District School Board has stood firm and reiterated that it upholds the religious freedom of all students and will continue to provide them with reasonable accommodation without discrimination or favor. It said Muslim students will continue to pray as they wish.

So Canada remains a model of mutual respect despite occasional efforts to sow dissension. Muslims are grateful for this blessing but they and all Canadians have to remain vigilant to safeguard their freedom and harmony.

— Mohammed Azhar Ali Khan is a retired Canadian journalist, civil servant and refugee judge.

taken from : Canada remains a model of mutual respect at
http://arabnews.com/opinion/columns/article477456.ece

[sharaabee]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Very well said BarbieCue.

sharabee.....when you say everyone should be accommodated but to a reasonable level......how do you define "reasonable"?

That's a very good and complicated question of course. Everyone will have a different definition based on how religious and accommodating they are.

According to me.. reasonable would be something that does not obstruct the usual school process.. does not create a divisive mentality between students from different religion.. and is in compliance with western secular social norms.

[sharaabee]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

^ No I'm not going to give any more time to Banerjee's bull because to me this shouldn't even be an issue/news.

I didn't ask you too. We're on the same page on that. He's an idiot and should be ignored.

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

I agree that this Bannerjee guy definitely has the wrong agenda. The regular hindu organization has distanced themselves from it. The reporter did a great job making him look like a fool cuz he could not find any hindus around him supporting him.

"this is mandatory for us" is a slippery slope. Burkha is mandatory for some. Public punishments are mandatory for some. That's retarded. Religion should not enjoy complete immunity to whatever it wants.

I don't understand how the slippery slope applies here.......as long as your actions do not have a negative impact on others and as long as those subject to the consequences of your actions do not have an issue with it then there should be restriction.

If someone wants to wear a burka......let them......how does that impact me? Now if they insist that I have to wear one then I might be in a position to object.

Nobody is saying give religion free reign......they are simply asking for the right to practice their religion..... a right that is assured to them in the constitution.

No christian mass at school, no hindu poojas at school = no mass muslim prayers at school. I'm good with that logic.

Nobody has stopped the Christian community from having prayer sessions.......they simply haven't had the need to since their Sabbath is on Sunday.

I'm not sure when the Hindu religion requires prayer in a congregation so I can't comment but I'm sure that if a large enough contingent of the school's population asked for this privilege then the school and the board would be happy to oblige. And the same applies to the Jewish community.

You need to read up on this specific case a bit more as some of your points are incorrect. The school IS making special time arrangements for these students which walk in class late. Same with location (cafeteria).

The school is NOT making special time arrangements for these students. The parents are required to provide authorization for their child to attend the congregation in much the same manner as they would provide a note if the child was coming late to class due to a doctor's appointment. The children are required to make up for the missed lessons on their own. No part of the curriculum is being impacted or neglected at all.

As for the location.......the principal's decision to accommodate the prayer in the cafeteria is a smart one as otherwise the children, many of them quite young, would make a 10 minute trek to the nearby mosque. This unnecessary travel has the potential to pose several types of dangers. Furthermore.....the trip to the mosque often resulted in students not returning to school for the balance of the day. I'm sure the impact of truancy was affecting the school as well. Kudos to the principal for finding a brilliant solution to more than one problem.

If people from any religion are soo hell bent on following aspects of their religion that conflict with multicultural western norms.. then they should leave western countries and move back to Islamic countries. It's pretty simple. Its ridiculous that they want to live in secular western societies.. and then use secular values (freedom of religion) and manipulate and stretch it to its limits to live their version(s) of islamic life. How hypocritical?

So wait a second......you agree that "secular western societies" provide values like "freedom of religion" yet you don't want anyone immigrating to these societies if they are going to exercise that right? That sounds like hypocrisy to me.