Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

@sharaabee

That's a very good and complicated question of course. Everyone will have a different definition based on how religious and accommodating they are.

According to me.. reasonable would be something that does not obstruct the usual school process.. does not create a divisive mentality between students from different religion.. and is in compliance with western secular social norms.

Prayers being held at the school do not obstruct the usual school process.. Those children who are not participating are expected to attend regularly scheduled class and normal instruction takes place in the classroom.

There are no registered complaints from students in the school who are not praying and the activity has been running successfully for more than three years prior to this Banerjee person getting involved so I fail to see how the practice could create a divisive mentality between students.

There is total compliance with western secular social norms because the society, and the constitution, makes complete allowance for the freedom to practice your religion.

So wer're good, right?

[sharaabee]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

I don't understand how the slippery slope applies here.......as long as your actions do not have a negative impact on others and as long as those subject to the consequences of your actions do not have an issue with it then there should be restriction.

If someone wants to wear a burka......let them......how does that impact me? Now if they insist that I have to wear one then I might be in a position to object.

Nobody is saying give religion free reign......they are simply asking for the right to practice their religion..... a right that is assured to them in the constitution.

Nobody has stopped the Christian community from having prayer sessions.......they simply haven't had the need to since their Sabbath is on Sunday.

I'm not sure when the Hindu religion requires prayer in a congregation so I can't comment but I'm sure that if a large enough contingent of the school's population asked for this privilege then the school and the board would be happy to oblige. And the same applies to the Jewish community.

The school is NOT making special time arrangements for these students. The parents are required to provide authorization for their child to attend the congregation in much the same manner as they would provide a note if the child was coming late to class due to a doctor's appointment. The children are required to make up for the missed lessons on their own. No part of the curriculum is being impacted or neglected at all.

As for the location.......the principal's decision to accommodate the prayer in the cafeteria is a smart one as otherwise the children, many of them quite young, would make a 10 minute trek to the nearby mosque. This unnecessary travel has the potential to pose several types of dangers. Furthermore.....the trip to the mosque often resulted in students not returning to school for the balance of the day. I'm sure the impact of truancy was affecting the school as well. Kudos to the principal for finding a brilliant solution to more than one problem.

So wait a second......you agree that "secular western societies" provide values like "freedom of religion" yet you don't want anyone immigrating to these societies if they are going to exercise that right? That sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Did come across as a confrontational to you? I sense that I did. That was not the intention.

Regarding christians and hindus.. I believe I read that the ontario system did infact take christian masses etc away from public schools a decade ago or something. Whether you personallly are okay with it or not is not the question.

On Burkhas.. yep personally I do have a problem with it.. within western values and cultures the burkha comes across as very unfriendly.. in addition to the security risks and the women abuse issues..

My comment regarding the hypocrisy of some muslims (and hindus and christians) still stands. They want to invoke western secular values and stretch them to the limits to practice their own culture from back home.. thier own ultra conservative religious practices..many of which are in direct conflict with regular western values.. that. is hypocrisy.

The provision of "freedom of religion" is an abused one. This freedom shouldn't mean any ancient cultural norms from any religion should be accepted within western society. All that should mean to people is that you will not be prosecuted (or taxed extra) in this country just for being from another religion..and that you can have your places of worship etc.. it shouldnt mean that you can bring in any ancient ritual from your home country and expect western society to welcome it with open arms.

Again, I'm sorry if my tone comes across as confrontational. Not my intention. Written words are often interpreted with the worst tone.

[Southie]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Public schools should be kept free of organized religions. I do not care for this guy who appears to be right wing. He appears to have an agenda of intolerance. However, if the mosque is only 5 minutes away (not sure if that is true), I really do not see the issue here. If that religious service is really that importnat, an extra 10 minutes is not going to harm the children. I personally think lunch hour is meant for lunch. Kids should eat healthy, have a scheduled time set aside for lunch/play etc. But if the parents do want their kids to attend a service, freedom of religion guarantees them that right. But it does not guarantee a place to be provided for them in the school premises (cafetaria in this instance).

If I were a parent over there, I will probably vore in favor of the kids to be able to continue to pray in the cafetaria - just to avoid traumatizing them and making them pawns in the battle among stupid adults with agendas.

But taking a step back, I do not believe the public schools should be involved with religion. Religion is private.

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

thanks for the clarification sharabee.......

I don't know which "christian mass" you are referring to that was taken away a decade or so ago.....but if you mean the recitation of the Lord's Prayer every morning after the national anthem, then yes, this practice has been removed. Unfortunately the analogy doesn't match because the Lord's Prayer was mandatory for all students.....you could choose not to say it but you were required to stand through it, whereas the Juma prayers are totally voluntary and no student other than those that are participating are subjected to the experience.

While I agree that the "freedom of religion" provision may be abused in other cases, in this case I don't see how it is. We have a group of people that are keen to practice a particular part of their faith that has no impact on anyone other than themselves. They are not incurring any additional cost upon the taxpayer and they are not disturbing those around them.

What gives then?

The only involvement the school has taken is to offer the facility for the kids so that they do not wander off school property during the school day.

[CM]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

While this Bannerjee guy obviously has his own littel agendas which I don't agree with..... I don't support any religious activities in schools. It's just divisive. I don't want our kids to grow up with the "us" and "them" mentality.

Agreed. All Catholic run schools in Pakistan and the rest of the world should be shut down.

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

I haven't even begun to talk about the Catholic school system in Ontario that is partially funded by taxpayers money......nor have I addressed specific instances like the public school that has turned one portable classroom into a synagogue!

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

I went back to see what Mr. Banerjee is up to these days after his failed attempt at a protest…and here is what I found on the Canadian Hindu Advocacy website:

the following letter:

The CANADIAN HINDU ADVOCACY, after successfully repelling Khalistani Sikh attempts to infiltrate the Conservative Party in BC, is launching a campaign to repel brazen attempts to Islamize the Toronto District School Board.

We intend to defend Canadian values and prevent the Islamization of Canada by forcing the TDSB to cancel Islamic religious instruction in Toronto schools. We will also force the TDSB to ensure access to non halal meat alternatives in Toronto schools.

The following correspondence was sent recently:

The Canadian Hindu Advocacy, Canada’s largest Hindu advocacy, opposes TDSB policies which allow Islamic students to be given religious instruction in publicly funded school facilities.
Our organization has received many complaints from Hindu students and parents in the Valley Park Middle School region.
Accordingly, we would like to begin a discussion with TDSB authorities aimed at restoring secular education within the school system.
We would also like to discuss the serving of halal meat within TDSB schools. As you may be aware, the consumption of halal meat is forbidden in Hinduism, and our organization is determined to ensure all Hindu students are provided non halal meat alternatives.
Failure to achieve desired results would result in the Canadian Hindu Advocacy picketing the Valley Park School during the Friday afternoon Islamic prayer sessions.
Regards,
Naresh Patel
Canadian Hindu Advocacy

and most recently posted release:

Muslim incomes and education levels in the US, Britain and India rank near the bottom of all religious groups (reliable statistics shown below)

The CANADIAN HINDU ADVOCACY believes that this is partly due to policies similar to that of the TDSB and Valley Park Middle School, which result in disruption to the education of Muslim and non Muslim students during class time.

CHA urges the TDSB to reverse unreasonable accomodations which damage the education and teaching of both Islamic and non Islamic students.

Any Islamic organizations or individuals who oppose our position are urged to immediately reverse their unreasonable and self destructive views.

The Canadian Hindu Advocacy position on this issue, like the organization itself, is just, equitable, fair and perfectly in tune with Canadian and Hindu values.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/magazine/is-your-religion-your-financial-destiny.html
View graph for American Muslim income and education stats

NYA Home - National Youth Agency
Muslim incomes and education in UK

Jagesh Kumar
Canadian Hindu Advocacy

[Muzna]

Re: Groups Protesting Prayers at Toronto School

Please take a moment and vote YES on the poll at this link:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/144877--groups-to-protest-muslim-prayers-at-toronto-school

I don’t know if it will do enough but every little bit helps, no?