Grave Worshipping?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

You have to pardon my ignorance on this post - so be patient!

I’ve heard that in Pakistan/India, people have made tombs around their great peers and islamic leaders.

I was so shocked when I heard that people actually go there and pray to these graves.

Once in Lahore I saw a kind of party-procession going on and I asked my Uncle what it was all about. He said that they were celebrating a ‘peghumbar’ (a learned great man). These people were dancing to dholki etc.

Here my ignorance kicks in - People actually pass this off as part of Islam???

Consider this ayat:

[35:22]
22. Nor are (alike) the living (believers) and the dead (disbelievers). Verily, Allah makes whom He will hear, but you cannot make hear those who are in graves.

If the dead cannot hear us, how can we pray to them or ask them to pray for us?

Just Curious.

2

If it wasn't for the saudis these idiots would be prostrating to grave of Mohammad. Astaqfirullah. May Allah guide them on the right path of QURAN and Sunnah. Ameen.

I will have some more on this later, Inshallah. Bye.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

3

Yeah right watcher.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

saudis deny worshipping Allah because they believe in worshipping america by yelling Ya America mada when saddam attacks them. What a hypocrat people, these saudis are! Inna lillah

shair

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/mad.gif

4

CoolDude,
Whoever doing these practices is doing shirk and therefore non-muslim. The person being shia or sunni doesnt arrive as the person is already non muslim. With more education this cultural ignorance will go away eventually, inshallah.

5

Shair, are you saying that worshipping graves is ok?

Lets see if you can answer that questions, before I reassume.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

6

Shair pleas keep religious threads to religion.Don't bring politics into it.If you have a problem with americans in saudi arabia you can post it in the world affairs forum!

7

Yeah, I dont think politics should be involved but if you look at it in a way, religions are being practiced on teh basis of politics...take christian missionaries in russia for example....Neways,,,"grave worshipping" is haram because it is shirk. A large number of the population practices this and passes it on to the next generation as teh right thing to do....I hope they'll find teh right path......

8

i also have problem with saudis in pakistan. where do i put that?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

9

pak affairs!

10

Grave-worship, the belief that dead awliyaa’ (“saints, Imaams”) can fulfil one’s needs or help at times of distress, and calling upon them for aid. Allaah says:

*“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him . . .” *[al-Israa’ 17:23]

Similarly, they call upon dead Prophets, righteous people and others to intercede for them or to rescue them from some calamity, but Allaah says:

“Is not He (better than your gods) Who responds to the distressed one, when he calls Him, and Who removes the evil, and makes you inheritors of the earth, generations after generations? Is there any ilaah (god) with Allaah? . . .” [al-Naml 27:62]

Some of them have adopted the habit of mentioning the name of a shaykh or wali (“saint”) when they stand up, or sit down, or stumble, or encounter problems or distress, so they might say “O Muhammad!” or “O ‘Ali!” or “O Husayn!” or “O Badawi!” or “O Jeelaani!” or “O Shaadhili!” or “O Rifaa’i!” - or they may call upon al-’Aydaroos or Sayyidah Zaynab or Ibn ‘Alwaan. Allaah says:

“Verily those whom you call upon besides Allaah are slaves like you . . .” [al-A’raf 7:194]

Some of those who worship graves walk around them as if in Tawaaf, and acknowledge their corners, or touch them, kiss them, wipe their faces with their dust, prostrate towards them when they see them, or stand before them in fear and humility, praying for whatever they need of healing from some disease, or for a child, or for help with some difficulty. Sometimes they call upon the occupant of the grave, saying “O my master, I have come to you from far away, so do not let me down.” But Allaah says:

“And who is more astray than one who calls (invokes) besides Allaah such as will not answer him till the Day of Resurrection, and who are (even) unaware of their calls (invocations) to them?” [al-Ahqaaf 46:5]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever dies calling on someone else as a rival to Allaah, will enter Hell.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, 8/176).

Some of them shave their heads at the graves, and some have books with titles like Manaasik Hajj al-Mashaahid (“The Rituals of Pilgrimage to Shrines”), mashaahid or shrines referring to graves or tombs of awliyaa’. Some of them believe that the awliyaa’ are running the affairs of the universe and that they have the power to benefit or harm. Allaah says:

“And if Allaah touches you with hurt, there is none who can remove it but He; and if He intends any good for you, there is no one who can repel His Favour . . .” [Yoonus 10:107]

It is also shirk to make a vow to any other than Allaah, as is done by those who vow to bring candles or lights for the occupants of the graves.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

11

Knowing all this, and the fact that Quran says 'dead' people cannot hear us, why would a muslim still do this?

I remember a relative who came from Pakistan telling me it was ok to eat Haram burgers from McDonalds as long as you said the Kalima before you ate it.

Man, it's so sad to see people make innovations in Islam.

12

[quote]
Originally posted by CoolDude:
I remember a relative who came from Pakistan telling me it was ok to eat Haram burgers from McDonalds as long as you said the Kalima before you ate it.
Man, it's so sad to see people make innovations in Islam.
[/quote]

Tell him, if I say Bissmillah on ham does that make it Halal?!! Tell him our religion is not based on theories nor opinions, it's based on Knowledge that everyone must acquire. Hasbiallah..

For the grave issue, it is good to say o Allah forgive me by the virtue of Prophet Muhammad or by the virtue of a scholar, that has been done by Sahabah.. But it is haram to believe that a scholar or the Prophet will bring the benefit to you, it is Allah who grants it to you by the virtue and high status of the Prophet or of the scholar.

<<>> Learning the Obligatory Knowledge of the Religion puts the Muslim on the road for excellence and self-betterment. Acquire Islamic Knowledge!!

Ahmad/Islamic Studies

13

Ahmed well said

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

14

Some verses for all of you to ponder on!

4:64, 4:106-4:107 These clerly state that Mohammed can ASK forgiveness on Behalf of His followers from Allah!(this Is what we do! we tell them to Intercade with Allah on Our behalf)Let me remind you we Do NOT worship them or ask from them Coz ALL IS FROM ALLAH!

I think these above verses Will clear to you that Mohammed Can ask Allah on Our behalf!

15

Yaar, you should have posted these ayats!

Anyway, here are the ayats you are referring to:

[quote]
[4:64] And We did not send any Messenger but that he should be obeyed, by God's permission; and if they,when they wronged themselves, had come to thee and prayed forgiveness of God, and the Messenger had also prayed forgiveness for them, they would have found God All-returning, Merciful.(64)

[4:106] and pray forgiveness of God; surely God is Forgiving, Merciful.(106)

[4:107] And do not dispute on behalf of those who betray themselves; God does not love any sinful traitor,(107)
[/quote]

The second two refer to praying to Allah - no one disputes that.

Lets look at the first ayat in detail

[quote]
And We did not send any Messenger but that he should be obeyed, by God's permission
[/quote]

Nothing happens without Allahs permission, subhanallah.

[quote]
; and if they, when they wronged themselves, had come to thee and prayed forgiveness of God, and the Messenger had also prayed forgiveness for them, they would have found God All-returning, Merciful.(64)
[/quote]

If prophet Muhammed HAD prayed for them then they would have found Allah most merciful. Subhanallah.

Now who is 'They' ? Lets look at this ayat in context and look at the ayat preceeding this:

[quote]
And when it is said to them, `come to what God has sent down and to the Messenger, thou seest the hypocrites turning far away from thee.(61)

But how shall it be, when an affliction befalls them for what their hands have forwarded, and they come to thee swearing by God, `we only desired good and conciliation.'(62)

Those God knows what is in their hearts; so turn thou aside from them and admonish them, and say to them effective words concerning them.(63)
[/quote]

Allah is referring to the hypocrites here. Can we apply the same ayats to the Believers?

16

:: Shah Jahan says: “4:64, 4:106-4:107 These clearly state that Mohammed can ASK forgiveness on Behalf of His followers from Allah!”

Sir, Your refered verses need explanation. Even without looking at the verses, its tough for me to imagine that Mohammad(sa) can ever employ anyone in his account with Allah. The Personality who appinted to bring all the mankind towards Allah - its impossible for Him(sa) to use anyone as a mediator.

Cooldude has explained his opinion and it will be appreciate if you can elaborate these verses at your convenience as well.

:: Shah Jahan says: “Let me remind you we Do NOT worship them or ask from them Coz ALL IS FROM ALLAH!”

OK that’s comprehensible, but please enlighten this point also. If everything pertains to Allah, then why not ask him directly, why use dead humans as a prayer-carrier.

Did Allah ever permitted to do so?

Think rationally.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited November 10, 2000).]

17

Zalim quran says "Aaur aalah tuk pohochnay kay liyeh waseela dhoondo"

18

[quote]
Originally posted by Pagluu:
**Zalim quran says "Aaur aalah tuk pohochnay kay liyeh waseela dhoondo"

**
[/quote]

You made an assumption, but failed to provide any verse or references. Please provide some references, other wise keep non-sense and irrationality to your self. Thank you.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

19

[quote]
Zalim quran says "Aaur aalah tuk pohochnay kay liyeh waseela dhoondo"

[/quote]

haan? is it true?
pagluu aap ki baat wazahat talab hai. nawazish hogee ger aap hawala bhi tehrir kerdain.

shukerya

20

^That^ said, everyone should just stop.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Take it easy.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**