re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
In my opinion, Zia's whole regime was the beginning of the end of the stabilty of this nation, but it was not because he was an army general, it was because he was a dictator and a huge blame goes to the politicians of that time who literally invited Zia to take over. You cannot only blame army for that, its our corrupt politicians who paved the way of every martial law.
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
duplicate post
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
using your logic, pakistani awaam should be judged by the leaders/top management of this country. So we all are corrupt people at the end. Khail khatam, paisa hazam
Like this
Na haq ham majbooron par yeh tohmat hay Mukhtari ki
jo chahay so aap karay hay,ham ko abbas badnam kia
ناحق ہم مجبوروں پر یہ تہمت ہے مختاری کی
جو چاہے سو آپ کرے ہے ہم کو عبث بدنام کیا
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Daily times was Salman Taseer's newspaper!
Thats interesting.. form all i have read from other reputable analysis/opinion/media sources it is an establishments's mouthpiece...if u know otherwise i would be happy to acknowledge my error!
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Daily times was Salman Taseer's newspaper!
My bad I meant DailyMail from the isloo..the Daily times is well reputed news paper from Lahore.
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
mods can you change the title of this thread to Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad. It was not an assasination the man was shot 26 times in the back. Worse then the man who did it are the people for the last 2 months who have been inciting violence.
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
In my opinion, Zia's whole regime was the beginning of the end of the stabilty of this nation, but it was not because he was an army general, it was because he was a dictator and a huge blame goes to the politicians of that time who literally invited Zia to take over. You cannot only blame army for that, its our corrupt politicians who paved the way of every martial law.
c'mon stop playing the word games....he was a dictator because he was an army generail in the first place!... same goes for mushy, Ayub and yayha
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Pakistanis should honor the memory of this guy who basically died speaking for a minority woman -- just remove the blasphemy law, or better still, do a Turkey and ban all religious outfits and political parties. The role model for the religious parties are the Saudis and trust me, they are the worst possible inspiration for ANY country on this planet.
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
we can blame the army or the politicians. it boils down to who is more corrupt? if we had a strong democracy, there would not be a need for the army to interfere..so everybody is to be blamed.
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
we can blame the army or the politicians. it boils down to who is more corrupt? if we had a strong democracy, there would not be a need for the army to interfere..so everybody is to be blamed.
Agree with u..but would u agree that the dictators (specially Army backed in our case) has more power to change than a noisy democracy? By definition democracy has to hear different view points and deal with it in non-violent( unlike dictators who have power of gun) manner, also it takes time to nurture.
The dictators had 100x more power than the democratic goverment..and yet they were able to produce more problems for awam! ( i hope sa1eem does not post his lllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooonnnnnnnnngggg rebuttal abt how great the fake commando mushy's rule was :D)
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
using your logic, pakistani awaam should be judged by the leaders/top management of this country. So we all are corrupt people at the end. Khail khatam, paisa hazam
Nope, its "Pakistan" (the country) which will be judged as seen outside because of the government.
re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Actually, it is true that it does not matter what jawans or junior officers do or think, as what Pakistan Army does is doing of officers on top. It is they, senior officers of the forces, who decide the actions of armed forces and make the army act on it. On the other hand, it is also true that the day Pakistan Army Chief becomes sell-out, traitor, or agent of enemies, there would be no Pakistan.
Reason is simple, that is, jawans and low ranking officers have to obey orders, but it is those who give orders, army chief and his trusted generals, can use armed forces to save or harm the country. Worse is that, if they decide to harm the country then there would be no country to talk about. If that unfortunate day ever comes then one should be assured that country would break up into pieces.
Actually, Pakistan would go to dogs if it is not for those commanding officers of Pakistan armed forces, however good or bad they maybe according to the litmus of some (irrelevant) individuals pretending to be religious, Rambo, Jingo, Nationalists, or whatever, sitting in Pakistan or living abroad.
However mentally retarded and corrupt Pakistani politicians become, however religiously retarded people shout in the country, or even if some foreign agents as politician gets into Prime Minister office in Islamabad, Pakistan would stay safe as long as Army Chief and those trusted Generals close to him stay loyal to the country.
That is the reasons a military officer goes through stringent intelligence check for his ability, efficiency, and loyalty to the country at every step of promotion in his army career (an army officer get promoted 10 times at various posts in army, going through this stringent test, to become army chief), something that does not happen in any Pakistani civilian organisation or in Pakistani politics. So, it does not matter what some self-believing Pakistani so-called loyalists, self-proclaimed righteous or theka-daar of Islam call Pakistani General, be that they call them traitors or whatever, fact is that, the way it is since 1947, Pakistan would keep relying on these Generals for survival.
[That is different matter that an Army Chief is also human and may take decision with best intention but that decision may harm Pakistan, as what Zia-ul-Stupid did, that is, he became puppet of America and Saud’s Arabia and let Pakistan get used by Americans to fight their war with Russia in Afghanistan. His biggest mistake was to bring Saud’s Arabian influence in Pakistan that divided Pakistan bringing in intolerance and misguided Islam of Sauds into Pakistan. Anyhow, Zia’s act was not because Zia was traitor, as he did what he thought was right for Pakistan even though whatever he did disintegrated and harmed Pakistan badly, because Zia was mentally retard. Now, Pakistan is suffering because of Zia’s retarded mind-set]
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
In my opinion, Zia's whole regime was the beginning of the end of the stabilty of this nation, but it was not because he was an army general, it was because he was a dictator and a huge blame goes to the politicians of that time who literally invited Zia to take over. You cannot only blame army for that, its our corrupt politicians who paved the way of every martial law.
Pakistanis should honor the memory of this guy who basically died speaking for a minority woman -- just remove the blasphemy law, or better still, do a Turkey and ban all religious outfits and political parties. The role model for the religious parties are the Saudis and trust me, they are the worst possible inspiration for ANY country on this planet.
I totally agree with you TLK and sTalker...all the religious parties should be banned and people who gave Fatwaa's to kill Salman Taseer must also be held accountable for his murder...
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
c'mon stop playing the word games....he was a dictator because he was an army generail in the first place!... same goes for mushy, Ayub and yayha
I think now you are losing the argument here. There is a huge difference between a dictator and an army general. Kayani is one. Kakar was also one and he had golden opportunity to take over but he did not. When you badmouth 4 names (mush, zia, yahya, ayub) please remember that in the 63 years history of Pakistan, there were total of 14 chiefs, which means that there were 10 who did not take over.
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
... there were total of 14 cheifs, which means that there were 10 who did not take over.
lol.. Good point.
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Hey VoiceOne dont say anything about Ayub Khan :ASA: he was the only REAL leader Pakistan ever got after Mr. Jinnah.
As far as Salman Taseer's murder is concerned, jitnay munn utni baatain, walee baat hai. But we all know that he was not a guy of a good reputation. this guy being his personal gurad, probably knew alot more about him then any of us over here or back in Pakistan (General public). So may be he was already looking for some excuse or chance to get the bullet thru his owner's chest.
At the end of the day, the reality is, Salman Taseer is gone. He is NOT a Shaheed and now he is answerable for his deeds. Allah knows the best.
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Dozens are murdered in cold blood everyday across the nation. When was the last time, the Govt. or Public at-large took notice of that or held mourning period longer than 30 minute coffee break in between dramas and movies? Our situation is so despicable and dire that only Allah can help us now. But even Allah only helps those who help themselves first or make effort.
Thousands have died in just 12 months, yet not a single shred of improvement has taken place to prevent suicide bombings by the Govt. One politician dies and suddenly the entire nation is expected to come to a halt? I mean c'mon! Seriously? Are the other lives lost not precious? Whatever resolve came of "inquiries" of previous attacks that took lives of dozens of ordinary citizens?
We, as a nation really need to re-assess our sympathies and priorities. I neither say anything positive nor negative about Governor's death. It's yet another sign of deteriorating law and order situation in the country and every now and then we hear of public servants or public rather taking law into their own hands and acting on whims. Until and unless a proper system or justice is practiced which rids the nation of corruption and incompetent politicians from provincial level all the way upto national, i'm afraid we may see more of the same. And remember this isn't the first time either......
Sad as it may be, this is the stark reality of events in a nation that is being compressed to powder. On the one hand it's being crushed with increasing costs of living that are beyond the reach of even the middle class. On the other hand there's the fear of never returning home after a hard day's work....
May Allah help this nation out of this situation that Pakistan has landed in, and rid it of all the bloody leeches that are sucking it dry.
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Im surprised vig.. theres quite a few things wrong with your post.
Firstly, it is always remarkable when a prominent public official is killed. In any country of the world, if the governor of the largest province was murdered for a political stance, it would be headline news, it would get more coverage than other, equally precious people. This is like saying why was Princess Diana's wedding on tv when millions of people get married? Why do people make movies about JFK's assasination but not many about a person my cousin knew? It is true that our law and order situation is terrible, and suicide bombings, target killings happen everyday and it is a shame that we are becoming desensitised to them. But it isnt unusual that this will generate significantly more attention.
Secondly the man was killed for a specific stand he took, by a person who killed him because he took that stand. That sequence of events makes this much more than a random murder. It is indicative of intolerance and extremism. It is indicative of what state of affairs Pakistan is in where even powerful people cannot hold contrarian opinions without being killed.. what to say of the ordinary man. If you have concern for your country you should find that truly significant, and that should elevate this above a common murder.
Thirdly if other lives are previous, so is this one. Therefore to neither say anything 'positive nor negative' about the Governor's death is suggestive that this particular life is less precious to you.
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
Im surprised vig.. theres quite a few things wrong with your post.
[quote]
Firstly, it is always remarkable when a prominent public official is killed. In any country of the world, if the governor of the largest province was murdered for a political stance, it would be headline news, it would get more coverage than other, equally precious people. This is like saying why was Princess Diana's wedding on tv when millions of people get married? Why do people make movies about JFK's assasination but not many about a person my cousin knew? It is true that our law and order situation is terrible, and suicide bombings, target killings happen everyday and it is a shame that we are becoming desensitised to them. But it isnt unusual that this will generate significantly more attention.
Fair enough. It would be better if the governmental machinery showed just as much vigor in public matters as it does for one of its' own. Governors are still appointed and not elected, right? But yes, this incident will be abuzz for a while. Perhaps longer than the usual attention span that we've gotten used to.
[quote]
Secondly the man was killed for a specific stand he took, by a person who killed him because he took that stand. That sequence of events makes this much more than a random murder. It is indicative of intolerance and extremism. It is indicative of what state of affairs Pakistan is in where even powerful people cannot hold contrarian opinions without being killed.. what to say of the ordinary man. If you have concern for your country you should find that truly significant, and that should elevate this above a common murder.
[/quote]
Which is why I said that public and public servants seem to be taking law into their own hands and acting on their own whims. Public officials should never drag their feet when it comes to sensitive or rather controversial matters. Governor did a decent thing by voicing support for the minority woman. All minorities should be protected with more interest because the nation is 'Islamic Republic'; however, you and I both know that all parties were milking the issue to their own advantage. And this fellow from the Elite force probably saw the only target he could find and make an impact and he did just that. For the murder, he should be tried to the fullest extent of the law. But let us not allow Zardari and Co. to use this unfortunate incident for their political advantage. There are suggestions afloat that assassination of BB brought Zardari to power, assassination of Mr. Taseer would ensure he hangs onto power and gets another green light to do all the more corruption (PPP all-inclusive).
[quote]
Thirdly if other lives are previous, so is this one. Therefore to neither say anything 'positive nor negative' about the Governor's death is suggestive that this particular life is less precious to you.
[/quote]
His life is no more or less precious than that of any ordinary citizen. I will not idolize him after his death and make other murders seem vain in comparison. Law and order situation must be improved for the entire nation, for the public sake. Not for one person sake no matter the significance of that one person. Justice for all, or justice for none.
Re: Governor Punjab Salman Taseer murdered in Islamabad
[quote="ravage, post:50, topic:234436"]
Fair enough. It would be better if the governmental machinery showed just as much vigor in public matters as it does for one of its' own. Governors are still appointed and not elected, right? But yes, this incident will be abuzz for a while. Perhaps longer than the usual attention span that we've gotten used to.
I dont know how much vigor its shown in this instance, but yes I dont think anyone can argue that the government should be vigorous in general wrt violence.
[quote]
Which is why I said that public and public servants seem to be taking law into their own hands and acting on their own whims. Public officials should never drag their feet when it comes to sensitive or rather controversial matters. Governor did a decent thing by voicing support for the minority woman. All minorities should be protected with more interest because the nation is 'Islamic Republic';
[/quote]
I think it has to do with the blasphemy law in general, as well as Asia bibi.
[quote]
however, you and I both know that all parties were milking the issue to their own advantage. And this fellow from the Elite force probably saw the only target he could find and make an impact and he did just that. For the murder, he should be tried to the fullest extent of the law. But let us not allow Zardari and Co. to use this unfortunate incident for their political advantage. There are suggestions afloat that assassination of BB brought Zardari to power, assassination of Mr. Taseer would ensure he hangs onto power and gets another green light to do all the more corruption (PPP all-inclusive).
[/quote]
Just as you do not allow Zardari to perpetuate corruption on this basis, you should also not allow the killer of Taseer to achieve his political goals by murder. There is therefore, a significant rationale for exploiting Taseer's murder politically: ensure that those who murder for political goals live to see the oppposites of those gain popularity. I am all for idolising Taseer because he was murdered for political beliefs, it shouldnt be easy to silence a point of view by killing its proponent.
[quote]
His life is no more or less precious than that of any ordinary citizen. I will not idolize him after his death and make other murders seem vain in comparison. Law and order situation must be improved for the entire nation, for the public sake. Not for one person sake no matter the significance of that one person. Justice for all, or justice for none.
[/QUOTE]
But as I pointed out, this isnt a random murder. Someone was killed for taking a stand, there is grounds for 'idolizing' atleast that stance, and distinguishing it from murder in general.