Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
61

Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

^ Should we also restore the nationalized businesses to their original pre-70 owners? :)

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The short answer is yes! What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Socialism is bad for the agriculture and terrible for the factories.

The whole moronic idea of 22 families was rooted in the now-fully-debunked ideals of Islamic socialism.

We need to restore not only 22 families, but we need to allow them to become 2200 families. Pakistan should cherish their rich instead of hounding them out of the country. Human and financial capital looks for safer places, and it has been devastating for Pakistan to use socialism in order to kick our human and financial capital out of the country.

Pak government should never have planted their socialist baboos to become the foremen in private sector industries. However getting these government baboos out of these factories (if these factories survived till today) is even more difficult. And until these factories are detoxed from socialist baboos, no sane businessman would buy them back.

For Pakistan to become industrialized, it has to sell these nationalized factories for a symbolic $1 (or better yet Rs. 1) and let the private owners rebuild them from the socialist-ashes.

Off course protections and regulations must be in place to stop the speculators run amok with this concept. But other than regulations and occasional short-term support, Pak government must get out of industries and factories.

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Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

A mix of socialism and free market capitalism is best. The world's finest systems are found in Europe, which also has the pinnacle of civilization to its credit. We should where possible adopt European methods of social development, and indeed economic development AFTER we have undergone a industrialization phase.

We tried to go from agri to services, skipping manufacturing. Manufacturing is at the heart of all economic stability, it creates jobs, saves foreign exchange, develops expertize and creates self sufficiency.

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I would like to learn more your idea about "mix of socialism and free market capitalism"? Can you break down for us and explain specific plans and how it will improve our economy.

Could you please explain to us if you ever given a free run to improve our economy what would you do and how? And how do you compare your economic and social development idea/plan compare to Malaysia and Singapore.

Does your plan include developing coastal Town/Cities, for example, Sonmiani city and port, Ormara City and Port, Pasni City and port, Jiwani.

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Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

The details will take time, and minds much better then my own. Suffice to say that Europe has it right, there is a state sector as support, as holder of key industries or a partner is such enterprize. And the free market operates within that structure.

The pure free market, which is to say no state element, is to lead to chaos.

As for what I would do...some ideas.

I would implement Import Substitution Economics. We dont manufacture anything of note. Why not? Build cars locally, trucks and bikes and toys and the rest. It need not be for the intl market....just internally. This saves huge FE, creates jobs and expertize.

Sure yr 1,2 quality will be low...but then gradually it'll get better. This will also foster R&D, and boost educational ops. The Japs werent born knowing how to build stuff, it was a conscious decision. We too can make for ourselves.

We can produce subs and APC's and tanks...why not planes? It takes investment...but better to spend now and save in the LR. All successful economies go thru this phase. Please study Brasilian example.

Once we cut our deficit, we can direct money elsewhere.

Limit the military/cut it. Perhaps better to re-deploy it. We dont need 600,000 men, we cant afford it. Nukes provide protection against regional external concerns. Take 125,000 men...counter insurgency forces. Stabilize Pakistan.

Wants we are stable, FDI will return. 70% of Pak is rural, like my family. Terrorists dont blow up cow sheds and buffalo sheds. Pak has a few key cities, these should have massive security.

I will go on, but my lunch in ready. At its heart, I would place a program of import substitution and cutting expenditure until we are in a position to spend.

Sharartain
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What about Improving political system? Political Parties? Should Corrupted Politician be allowed to run for government office, Mayor, Governor, MNA, MPA, PM, President?

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Pakistan me tax collection hai nahin barre logon par [the source of big $$$] and you want european socialism?

I haven't even seen imran the angrez paleet flipped brown sahib demand that or maybe he does? GOD KNOWS.. :D

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My point exactly as why would the greedy and opportunist parties want to f*ck the system that sustains them? :)

Even india hasn't been able to cross the rural-urban divide and their politicians are more loyal and patriotic than our bunch! I wouldn't give awards to them on honesty or ethics but still..

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Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

[quote]
Pak government should never have planted their socialist baboos to become the foremen in private sector industries. However getting these government baboos out of these factories (if these factories survived till today) is even more difficult. And until these factories are detoxed from socialist baboos, no sane businessman would buy them back.
[/quote]

So you would sell them for FDI? How is that giving it back to the owners?

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I wanted to remove PPP, PML and MQM from Pakistani politics and create new political parties.

Just because someone started a political party doesn't mean he owns it and it is his property. one person or family can't own a political party.

head/Chair Person of political party should be selected for 3 years term and he should only be allow to run for 2 terms consecutively (total 6 years). He can run for total 4 terms (12 years) but he must wait 6 before he can be elected as the Head/chair person of same political party.

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Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

^ how would you implement that? CHange has to come from within these parties!

I might add that sadly, for this to happen, we should let democrazy do its work even though we might not its outcomes now and Pakistan's interests might actually be hurt in the process!

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Great idea - that's exactly what we need, although cannot see it happen as our policy makers cannot live without luxury imports and neither do they have the long term vision to make such policies.

Not sure what all this has to do with the topic? I don't think having more provinces will achieve anything, it will only make more have-nots as the wealthy provices will get wealthier and the rural areas will get more pissed off. Need to go the other way, make provinces semi autonomous and let the centre just look after foreign policy and defence + limited economy.

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Forget about PPP, MQM, PML, don't think about war on Terror,. Let us just assume that there is no political party in Pakistan, and you are told to create 4 political parties and pick the head of each party, who would you pick as head of these political parties and why?

Imran Khan?
Makhdoom Muhammad Amin Fahim (PPP)?
Previz Musharraf?
Syed Mustafa Kamal (Karachi Mayor- MQM)?
Farooq Sattar (MQM)?
Kashmal Tariq?
Muhammad Ijaz-ul-Haq (PML-Q)
Humayun Akhtar Khan (PML-Q)
Tariq Azim Khan (PML-Q)
Sheikh Rashid Ahmad (AML)?
Ahsan Iqbal (PML-N)?
Javed Hashmi (PML-N)?
Manzoor Wattoo(PML-N?
Bushra Gohar (ANP)?

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Copying "european style socialism" has been the source of our troubles since 1947. Our enlightened elite went to Europe and said "Aha". This system is good, we want the same thing.

The problem with such "Aha moment" was that we ignore Europe's past and particularly Western Europe's history. They started building their economies back in the 1500s. Back then their corporations didn't have to pay too much tax and in some cases no tax at all. There were no labor unions so the European workers worked their backs off while corporate elite enriched themselves beyond anyone's imagination.

Since the European governments were not hounding their riche-rich, their wealth stayed home. After two and three generations the same riche-rich started putting some of that money back into their worker's betterment.

And that's how Europeans evolved after amassing loads of wealth for 300 years. Their modern day "West European socialism" is the result of 300+ years of consistent hard work on global scale.

We in Pakistan on the otherhand haven't worked hard for even 30+ years and then we expect European style socialism. Off course we have fallen flat on faces due the lack of accumulated wealth.

In Pakistan we barely gave 30 years to our riche-rich and then killed the golden goose by implementing Islamic socialism. Guess what! now the whole Pakistan is in trouble. Our socialists still taunt and haunt our wealthy, and the wealthy in turn take their wealth to Swiss banks.

We must learn to work hard like Europeans did in 1500s. We must make Pakistan the most capital friendly country in the world, then only then our wealthy will keep the wealth within the country. Not only that, wealthy people from other countries will bring their money to us.

Then we must wait patiently for at least 50 years before expecting the fruits even remotely similar to the ones Europeans enjoy these days.

Are we willing to emulate Europeans? Guess not. We would rather emulate bunch of biduins. Thus we'll remain uncouth like biduins too. And yes we'll remain dependent on others just like biduins do.

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Who will do the pick and choose? You are give very simplistic solutions which are frankly not imposable!

I know I will get a lot of flak for it but I blame the political parties like PPP and PML-n for not getting out of dynastic politics when both their leaders were in "convinient self-exiles".

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Oh man you want to open a new pendoras box. You think MQM can get out of Altaf bhai's stranglehold? even when Altaf bhai is in "convenient self exile" and so much exiled that he is now a British citizen.

Forget it man. This dynastic politics is in sub-continent genes. Indians cannot get rid of Gandhi clan, and BDeshis are stuck with Mujib clan and Pakistanis are forever tied to Sharif clan, Bhutto clan, and Altaf clan.

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Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

Well altaf doesn't have a progeny yet to lead MQM so if he goes then....

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Re: Government plan to divide 4 into 15 provinces

^ then to be fair, we can also say the PPP and pml[n] had no progeny kids to lead them either...

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That's a good point. MQM has not started the "within the family" top leader yet.

However the issue at hand is relatively simple. Why do our political leaders treat their parties as "Jagirs" and estates? From that perspective MQM, PML-A B C D N O P Q, PPP, ANP etc etc. all are the parties with "president-for-life" gods (with small g) at their top.

These poor things never understood, that it is better to change the party chairman every two years. There must be a "retirement" time for AZ, NS, Asfand, Imran, Qazi, and Altaf etc. etc.

If they don't leave, their parties will remain "undemocratic jagirs", then how can we ever expect that such parties will maintain democratic traditions in the country?

80

There is the whole bhutto clan [mumtaz, fatima though not tapped].

Plus, what about bilawal or the other two kids [both girls or one boy/ one girl?]. Are they not bibi’s progeny???

PS Nawaz sharif doesn’t have kids? :eek: