Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Brother, perhaps there's more to it than what we are declaring here...
Peace bro ...
Yeah .. It's just a reminder we've had these conversations many a time.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Peace StirCrasy
Of course good deeds and worship are not synonymous, that is why good deeds done with no purpose or without involving God in those intentions renders those deeds useless for the Hereafter. They may however be beneficial in this world, which is where the concept of Karma is limited to.
It is interesting that you bind God in subservience to the concept of Karma. To a Muslim that would seem you are appointing Karma as a god over God.
There can certainly be good deeds without involving God - such as when a atheist assists an old woman or feeds a hungry child. If you feel this renders the deeds useless, I can only hope you realize the mistake in that thinking.
There is no such thing as 'appointing' karma since it is not an entity of any kind. By itself karma is nothing but a word - a useless word. A creature attaining knowledge its karma defined through its dharma is what life and living and knowledge and prosperity are all about.
I will give you an example (I have not completed thinking this through but I think it is good enough to share at this point). Let us take somebody who went to restaurant to eat. He had a good meal, paid for it and returned home, leaving the wallet there by mistake.
Now, he can fret and fume and give himself hypertension about it, imagining what all he could have done with the money he lost.
Or he can call or go back to the restaurant to search for it.
Or he can hope that someone will find it and return it.
There are many courses of action, but let us just consider these three.
In all three courses of action, the result may be he gets the wallet or he does not.
In #1, if he got the wallet back, he still has suffered by fretting about it and becoming ill. If he did not get the wallet back, he is ill and broke to that extent.
In #2, if he gets the wallet back, he has undone his mistake of carelessness.
In #3, if he gets the wallet back, it adds the chances of his starting to believe in luck and infallibility and grows in carelessness. If he does not get the wallet back, he will be kicking himself for a long time for not having done what he could to find the lost object.
Dharmic thinking provide the ability for people to identify all possible courses of action in terms of cause effects.
Understanding cause effect and taking action. That is what Dharma is all about. Results will have to follow. We then don't have to worry or fret about the result.
Idon't know if karma is limited to this world or not. At least according to the puranas, it is not. That is why there are legends of Indra, the devas, why even the Gods being subjected to sentences. For example, a number of 'demons' in the Sri Ramayana are actually devas and demi Gods who were paying their penance o serving their sentence until liberated by Sri Rama or his associates.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
In that context then I agree. It definitely honors him to do good deeds.
Perhaps it's just semantics to say "God created us soley for the purpose of worshipping him" if one considers every good thing they do to be for the glory of God. It just seems like the emphasis on that sentence is that God wants praise more than he wants for man to act righteously.
I would say it is more than semantics that differentiate between a person who submits to Allah SWT and one who does not inspite of his apparently good actions. The semantics only appear important where you can translate ones actions into visible semantics. What is in our hearts we know and Allah SWT knows. So the semantics however honorable they may appear may not be so when Allah SWT judges them.
Its not that God wants praise but all praise is his and he deserves it. It would be unfair on our part to not give him praise for the bounties he has bestowed upon in our creation.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Peace bro ...
Yeah .. It's just a reminder we've had these conversations many a time.
I would absolutely have to agree with this.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Peace Seminole
No! Obviously not Muslim. Anything that contradicts the Qur'an without a clear context that can be backed up with evidence then we throw it and take what the Qur'an says.
No one is talking about contradiction, just as karma doesn't have to supercede God. Karma is just a natural law that stems from God. (BTW, there are only some 77,000 words in the Quran, it's not hard to come up with all kinds of things that wouldn't contradict it.)
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
There can certainly be good deeds without involving God - such as when a atheist assists an old woman or feeds a hungry child. If you feel this renders the deeds useless, I can only hope you realize the mistake in that thinking.
There is no such thing as 'appointing' karma since it is not an entity of any kind. By itself karma is nothing but a word - a useless word. A creature attaining knowledge its karma defined through its dharma is what life and living and knowledge and prosperity are all about.
...
Idon't know if karma is limited to this world or not. At least according to the puranas, it is not. That is why there are legends of Indra, the devas, why even the Gods being subjected to sentences. For example, a number of 'demons' in the Sri Ramayana are actually devas and demi Gods who were paying their penance o serving their sentence until liberated by Sri Rama or his associates.
Peace StirCrasy
You said that there can certainly be good deeds without involving God. Where from my post have you got the idea that I am not agreeing with you?
Secondly I think you need to give Seminole a lesson because from here it seems that Karma is taking its toll on those demi-gods.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
No one is talking about contradiction, just as karma doesn't have to supercede God. Karma is just a natural law that stems from God. (BTW, there are only some 77,000 words in the Quran, it's not hard to come up with all kinds of things that wouldn't contradict it.)
Peace Seminole
I'm saying nothing like what you are replying to, please read the post above.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
muslim and many non muslim who eat meat do this infront of their childern as well
although what you have in mind is to turn childern away for eating meat as they might turn against that when they see the animal dieing
this is similar as to turn girls against merriages by showing the child birth and pain of women so that girls should not marry
this is not the right way
grow up
blood is haram
What I meant was what message you are giving to your kids when you/your family member slaughter an animal in front of him??that killing an animal in the name of god is justified.
you didnt replied..why you dont eat elephants?
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
I'm saying nothing like what you are replying to, please read the post above.
You said:
It is interesting that you bind God in subservience to the concept of Karma. To a Muslim that would seem you are appointing Karma as a god over God.
I'm saying karma is a concept that works within God's framework, making karma subservient to God (as everything is).
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Can't believe this thread
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
What I meant was what message you are giving to your kids when you/your family member slaughter an animal in front of him??that killing an animal in the name of god is justified.
again i have said , we do not kill animal for charhawa ( in the name of god)
we only grow animals and plants and kill animals and plants for food
second tell me what message will be given to girl if she is being shown the pain of child birth
ethically this is not correct to show both child birth and killing to childern both convey wrong message
both have been carried out by professional these days
first by professional doctor and second by professional kassai , so be happy
most muslim eat meat but they can't see when kassai put knife on animal throat
[quote]
you didnt replied..why you dont eat elephants?
[/QUOTE]
reproduction rate of elephant is too too slow
one or two young ones in 50 or 60 years
if we start eating elephant , then elephants will disappear from the earth
second i don't think so that elephant comes in halal category , so i don't think that muslim eat elephant
rather you should ask this from chinese , koreans
they will tell you about the taste of elephants as well
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Quran 4:48 *Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin. *
and the good deeds of such people go waste as the verse tells us.... Quran 18:105 *Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefor their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them. *
oh the good deeds go to waste eh? what kind of god (if he exists) just overlooks the doings of billions of people just coz they call him/her by a different name or they probably feel the need to listen to their heart and feel him/her from their heart instead of just blindly believing everything they;re taught about him/her?
i mean don't accidents happen? babies get mistakenly exchanged at hospitals and stuff. what's the poor muslim born baby gonna do if he accidentally lands into the hands of non muslim parents and lives life as non muslim too? so what if he leads an honest, sincere life, without harming others? on the day of resurrection, we're anyway not gonna assign no weight to him. sorry kiddo, but that's your fate. sh it happens.
Re: Good Non-Muslim People
Can't believe this thread
yeh its almost as believable as most of the religions today are.