Faisal, you are so level headed, thanks for summing up so nicely and not get peeved off like most people do...
Faisal, thanx for your reply. Yes there is no word of men wearing/ not wearing gold in Quran. You are so very right about it, but as per my last post, indirectly it is forbidden as quran strictly forbids anything that is used for the beautification of a man. I might be wrong, but when I was researching to find you something out of Quran about men wearing gold, I did read at various translation of the above mentioned quranic verse and as I mentioned above if you read the Arabic of this ayat you will find the word 'REESH'. The Quranic term "Reesh" is both for beautification and to provide body against the severity of climate ) and indeed, I am refering to that part.
All I am trying to say is yes Quran doesn’t mention anything about gold but in my opinion wearing gold serves no other purpose but showing off and beautification for a man. And hence in the light of Quran it is prohibited.
Aahmed : Some people surely do get peeved off because of the fact that Islam at various occasions is interpreted wrongfully. And some people never get the guts to talk directly, rather addressing them indirectly. I like when people address me directly, rather pass remarks in an unprofessional manner.
-Salman
SalmanNY
Help me understand how does this ayat suggest that wearing clothes to beautify oneself is prohibited in Quran?
"O, children of Adam, we have sent down to you clothing in order to cover the shameful parts of your body and serve as protection and adornment and the best garment is the garment of piety" (7: 26).
And where did this ayat say that men should not wear clothes which makes them look good? Let alone talking about silk and gold.
Jazak Allah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aahmed: *
Are there any Quranic verses that prohibit gold or silk? If not, there are however these Quranic verses:
[3:94]
Those who fabricate false PROHIBITions after this, and attribute them to GOD, are truly wicked.
[5:87]
O you who believe, do not PROHIBIT good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.
[7:32]
Say, "Who PROHIBITed the nice things GOD has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say, "Such provisions are to be enjoyed in this life by those who believe. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of Resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know.
How is it possible for Prophet Mohammed to prohibit something that God Himself in His Infinite Grace and Glory did NOT prohibit? The Quran does not prohibit gold or silk for men, Prophet Mohammed was allowed to only preach and teach from the Quran, then why and how the prohibition of gold and silk for men?
[/QUOTE]
ANSWER to your blasphemy:
‘Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow’
[al-Ahzaab 33:21].”.
033.021
YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
PICKTHAL: Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
SHAKIR: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.
I hope the mods are not going to delete it because i have
given relpy of what THIS PERSON has written. DOES THIS
ANSWERS THE GOLD QUESTION.
Rehman1, no it doesn't answer the question, I absolutely agree that we should follow the practices of our Prophet, however, if the Prophet was ONLY allowed to teach from the Quran, why would he forbid something that's NOT forbidden in the Quran.
As for you Salman, I wasn't talking about you, Faisal knows, I've had issues in the past. So if you were offended, forgive me for I was not addressing you.
Balanced and measured replies Faisal Bhai. :k:
I try to follow a simple rule, if you are not sure about something don t do it. Several ahadiths have been quoted to clearify the position, if you want to follow Prophet’s :saw:Sunnah then dont wear gold or silk. Remember, Prophet Muhammad:saw: life was based on nothing but Quran and serves as a guidance to all of us. We can debate about the authenticity of the ahadiths all day long, however, if you believe in those ahadiths mentioned above do not wear gold or silk.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by epicurean: *
Thanks for the reply. What if someone as mulsims knows its haraam but wears it?
Would he be considered muslim? What is the status for him in islam?
[/QUOTE]
I think he is Muslim, he may be a "sinning" Muslim if the ahadith mentioned above are correct and authentic. Doing a sin does not necessarily kick you out of Islam, unless the sin is of "Shirk" or "kufr"
^^ It doesnt get simpler than that. well said Kaleem ! Base of islam is on 2 things Quran and Sunnah. These are the TWO main artries of Islam. If there is something that is not clear in Quran, look at the life of Prophet Mohammad :saw:. Faisal, I will get you the arabic translation of that surah it appears you are not getting my point. Ahamed, your post about things that are not forbidden in quran and why would prophet :saw: should forbid it, is just simply laughable. I will later tell you why.
-Salman
But The Quran does NOT forbid gold or silk on men. And as you stated, Prophet Muhammad :saw:'s life was a walking talking Quran then how can the hadees be authentic?.
Just curious. I don’t like wearing gold or silk anyway.
SalmanNY, I have done nothing but be curteous to you, yet you keep talking to me like I'm your pet, I've had enough of it. You say my argument is laughable, then please, I beg you, explain to me how can the Prophet (who can only preach what is in the Quran, nothing more, nothing less) forbid something that the Quran does not forbid? That is the only question I have, you say it's laughable, then explain it to me.
Consider me illiterate about Islam. Is this how you treat and talk to people new to Islam, by telling them that their question is laughable? You need to grow up and be able to debate, not just insult people who either don't agree with you or don't understand your point of view.
Funguy, Quran also does not tell you how to pray. We look to ahadiths and sunnah to adopt a correct way of praying to Allah. Will you question the way of praying by saying that its not mentioned in Quran? Prophet Muhammd:saw: elaborated a lot of situations that are in the Quran but not detailed. You have to look at the Quran and try to find the relevant message from Prophet:saw:…at least that is how I try to do it.
Kaleem, but the Quran does order us to pray. So the hadees on namaaz has some basis to it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aahmed: *
SalmanNY, I have done nothing but be curteous to you, yet you keep talking to me like I'm your pet, I've had enough of it. You say my argument is laughable, then please, I beg you, explain to me how can the Prophet (who can only preach what is in the Quran, nothing more, nothing less) forbid something that the Quran does not forbid? That is the only question I have, you say it's laughable, then explain it to me.
Consider me illiterate about Islam. Is this how you treat and talk to people new to Islam, by telling them that their question is laughable? You need to grow up and be able to debate, not just insult people who either don't agree with you or don't understand your point of view.
[/QUOTE]
I explained to you very clearly that Koran says at various places
that FOLLOW Prophet Muhammad(SAW). Now when He (SAW)
says something we have to follow it. And the Hadiths mentioned
above are Saheeh(authentic).
In your posts you delibrately used Quranic Ayats without
understanding them and tried to Malign Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
And than you have the audacity to tell us that you are NEW in Islam.
I think you need to grow up as you decided to criticize Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
Also see Fatwas which talks about gold/silk issues.
Before you quote Koran, read the introduction to the chapter, meaning and tafsir. And than quote The AYATS.
Please, before you insult Muslims again. Take a ethical class.
Rehman, how did I insult the Prophet? Secondly, if you read carefully, I know it's hard for you, but try, I didn't say that I am new to Islam, I said "is this how you treat people new to Islam" and then followed it wil "consider me an illiterate".
Lastly, I know we are supposed to follow the messenger, however, if the messenger is supposedly saying something that is not in the Quran, does that not mean that the supposed narration is untrue, because the Prophet could only teach from the Quran, he was not allowed to add to it. Just look at it logically.
Finally, you need to cool your jets, no body is insulting you or Islam or the messenger. Just because I don't agree with your views doesn't mean that I am being insulting. You need to use your head more than your emotions, getting so emotional is going to be the downfall of all the 'muslims' who refuse to stop and think but go on the aggressive at the smallest hint of opposition.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by aahmed: *
Rehman, how did I insult the Prophet? Secondly, if you read carefully, I know it's hard for you, but try, I didn't say that I am new to Islam, I said "is this how you treat people new to Islam" and then followed it wil "consider me an illiterate".
Lastly, I know we are supposed to follow the messenger, however, if the messenger is supposedly saying something that is not in the Quran, does that not mean that the supposed narration is untrue, because the Prophet could only teach from the Quran, he was not allowed to add to it. Just look at it logically.
Finally, you need to cool your jets, no body is insulting you or Islam or the messenger. Just because I don't agree with your views doesn't mean that I am being insulting. You need to use your head more than your emotions, getting so emotional is going to be the downfall of all the 'muslims' who refuse to stop and think but go on the aggressive at the smallest hint of opposition.
[/QUOTE]
How is it possible for Prophet Mohammed to prohibit something that God Himself in His Infinite Grace and Glory did NOT prohibit? The Quran does not prohibit gold or silk for men, Prophet Mohammed was allowed to only preach and teach from the Quran, then why and how the prohibition of gold and silk for men?
Sir Ahmad,
This is what you quoted. What ever Koran and Sunnah says
has to be followed. I really don't care whether you are new to ISlam
or Not.
rehman1…
Seems to me aahmed’s point is that sunnah (as collected in ahadith books is not deemed 100% reliable by some). Quran is considered 100% unchanged. General rule of sharia is that a ruling is mentioned in the Quran. Ahadith and sunnah further explain it and show practical application for that ruling.
If a ruling is not in Quran, and is only supported by ahadith, then the question becomes how authentic those ahadith are. For those of us who trust sihah-sitta (seven books of saheeh ahadith) this is a non-issue, because we feel any hadith which is found in sihah-sitta is extremely reliable and should be followed. This confidence is not shared by everyone. Many people consider that if a there is a ruling in hadith but that ruling has no basis in Quran, it should be rejected as fabricated. Another general rule is that that no one can make something haraam which Allah has not made haraam.
Thats why I said in the beginning that based on available evidence it seems to me that the ruling for men wearing silk or gold is obtained entirely from ahadith. Those of us who believe all ahadith in saheeh books are authentic, this is all we need. Those who co-relate all ahadith to Quran and reject those rulings which are not mentioned in Quran have a problem with this approach. I, therefore, generally leave it at that. To each his own.
I hope its clear.
ps. And lastly, we should all maintain a courteous and polite tone while discussing Islamic matters. Insulting other people will actually be counter-productive.
Jazak Allah.
I know what Ahmad- i-e point is. Don’t try to clear your friends
point of view. As i said earlier he used unrelated Koranic ayats
to quote about Ahadiths.
rehman1 the ultimate authority on declaring haraam and halaal is Allah.. aahmed's posts are very relevant, it's only your failing if you don't find them such:
Here's one more to add to that list:
[66:1] O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by rehman1: *
I know what Ahmad- i-e point is. **Don't try to clear your friends
point of view*. As i said earlier he used unrelated Koranic ayats
to quote about Ahadiths.
[/QUOTE]
On gupshup rehman1 is the ultimate authority even Allah has to admit it.
aahmed and faisal ahve given very valid and reasonable coments but because*rehman1* thinks that he knows the islam better than every other muslim on the forums so no matter what you say he never agrees.
But its not his problem, its the way he is brought up, to not to listen to other people's point of view and just try to impose your views on them.
Unfortunately we have alot of other muslims like him who have blocked their ears from the positve feedback and who do not have enough wisdom to think and answer logicallyand who just want to tell you that you are always wrong and they are always right.
And its people like him, who have made our beautiful religion so hard for everyone to understand and to actupon.
Allah "please give a bit of wisdom to these people to atleast think in a broader way so they can see the both aspect of human life"