Re: Gog and Magog
Well that is wrong, because it is in the Quran that Zulqarnain was a pious believer, whereas Alexander the Great was an unbeliever.
Re: Gog and Magog
No man shall be able to defeat them. They will be so great in number and so powerful, none shall be able to stand in their way.
Allah o Alim…but we are supposed to take the Quranic Ayaahs and the Ahadeeth literally. Sami’na wa Ata’na (we listen and we obey)
Re: Gog and Magog
the great wall of china has been fortified with molten lead????
if not, then how can u mistake it for sid-e-zulqarnain????
Re: Gog and Magog
The counterpoint to that which I feel obliged to make is that the Day of Judgement is not a day (24 hours).
It is 50,000 years (Quran 70:4)
The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years
If the wall is taken to be physical, then it certainly cannot be considered to be the Great Wall of China. The wall is described as physically being between the tops of two mountains.
The thing that is on my mind is that any point on earth can now be seen from the air, and yet no country has been able to find a wall of this size and an undocumented lost nation of people within its boundaries. And there is no evidence that it is a hidden wall of any kind, since it was made by a man.
Re: Gog and Magog
It could be an illusion...you know something invisible like Jinns?
Re: Gog and Magog
Iron blocks and lead are not illusions. Plus Zulqurnain was a man. Men don’t go round making illusionary things, they make tangible things.
Re: Gog and Magog
Well, no...
You can "make" a foundation of knowledge for yourself upon which you "stand"...
Does that mean you are standing on a pile of books?
Remember, the Quran is Arabic poetry at its best, or so that is how people described it when they would hear the revelations...So, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of symbolism that quickly.
Re: Gog and Magog
Quran may have been equivalent to Arabic poetry to the kuffar at that time, but it never has been taken as poetry by the Muslims. Muslims believe it is the Word of Allah (SWT). There are parables in the Quran, but not poetry.
Re: Gog and Magog
So you don't think the device of symbolism is used?
Re: Gog and Magog
I don't think there is any symbolism used in the above posted ayats from Surah Kahf. And Allah (SWT) knows best.
Re: Gog and Magog
Then how would you respond to Maddie's questions? Its a curiosity isn't it..if such people exist...then where are they?
Re: Gog and Magog
Reading what is admittedly just a translation of the verses from Surah Kaf it does seem as though at least one other is symbolic lather than literal. Here are 3 translations of verse 86.
YUSUFALI: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: “O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.”
PICKTHAL: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu’l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.
All 3 of these translations literally state the sun as setting in a body of water, either a spring or a sea. That must symbolic, because the size of the sun would prevent it from fitting into anything on earth.
I lack sufficient knowledge of arabic, however, to be able to tell if this was the implication in the original words too or if something is lost in translation.
Re: Gog and Magog
We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur’an making things clear:
Surah Ya-seen, Verse 69
Re: Gog and Magog
Yes but Maddie to do a literal translation, you’d have to look at the arabic word used for “setting” and ask what its literal meaning is. Maybe the literal meaning is not actually “setting”.
Like in English, the Literal meaning of “setting” is not necessarily physical. It would be literal and symbolic if you were using the word in a sense other than what its standardly used for.
So if its being used symbolically, that might actually be literal! ( 
For anyone who has taken a philosophy of language type class will know what I’m talking about).
Sadiyah, that’s what I mean by symbolic vs. literal. I think we’re talking about the same thing. If the Quran is saying “setting” it doesn’t necessarily mean the sun in its physical entirety is falling into a body of water. It could just mean that this is what the image seems like since if you’ve ever seen sun set on water, that’s what its referred to as, “the sun setting in the water”. Its symbolic, but its actually literal, because everyone knows what a sun “setting” in water really means. Its most likely an inherent sense of the word.
Re: Gog and Magog
I'm sorry, Sharaabi. I just realized that poetry and symbolism aren't the same thing.
Re: Gog and Magog
I firmly believe that the wall must be literal and so are the two nations mentioned in Surah Kahf. Why is it that none of us have discovered such a wall and people behind it doesn’t really bother me. From what I have learned, the wall will be flattened out and its inhabitants will appear close towards the end of time. I believe it is amongst the major signs of qiyaamah and only Allah (SWT) knows about it (ie. when this would happen). If Allah (SWT) has said that such people exist, then they exist; perhaps hidden from our eyes or whatever the case happens to be. Allah (SWT) is capable of everything.
I agree with you.
Here’s the tafsir for the verse, which has suggested the same just in case anyone is interested:
Source: His traveling and reaching the Place where the Sun sets (the West)
Re: Gog and Magog
But wait that Tafsir goes against what the Quranic translations Maddie posted say. The translation of the Quran says that the place was where the sun sets. Most likely meant to be on a much farther point on the Earth than from where Zulqarnain probably started or something to that effect.
Hm...the place where the sun Sets...California?
Re: Gog and Magog
I am gonna go a bit weird on you and state something which makes me look like a trekkie, but said we were discussing this planet? There may be no "wall" here. But who knows what we will accomplish in years let alone decades.
But if we assume it is earth, the Gog and Magog are placed between the earth as it is written they have a roof over their heads. Having an underground sea would not be very possible but hey who knows the mysteries of the world. The Gog and Magog could easily be a subterrain race blocked in by stone, molten rock and iron underneath the earth. However what i find every interesting is that the phrase race is used. We aren't dealing with nation states but a physically different set of humanoids.
As for physical place for the Gog and Magog to reside, that would be the Ural Mountains. Some one posted that the Gog and Magog would attack the Turks first. Then you have the black sea (murky spring?) in the area and you have the Ural mountains known for iron and metal ore. And that would also provide a reasoning for them to have a roof over their heads if they are underground and you are located in between mountains. Plus remember the geography of the earth has changed over the course of time.
LOL. Sometimes Old man i feel i know the New and Old testements better than i know the Quran. But as i have always been facinated with myths and legends this will definitely be interesting to read.
Re: Gog and Magog
Race means a different species???
Re: Gog and Magog
Scientifically speaking if i recall correctly, Homo Sapien Sapien, Home Sapien Neatherthalas, Home Erectus et al are different species and i thus a different race. Plus didn't someone just say they were super human giants that were inherent evil. Doesn't sound like humans to me.