Gog and Magog (merged)

[lazy_daisy]

who were they

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Gog and Magog

You know I read this fascinating theory that they might be the Mongols. But there were counterarguments against that case. Interesting nontheless.

They were a very very evil race that is locked up inside a mountain and every day they hammer to get out of the mountain, but when they fall asleep, their work is all reverted and they have to start from step 1 again.

Near Qayamat day, they’ll be released from the mountain and will reek much havoc.

I suspect some of them already frequent this site

[ahmadjee]

Re: Gog and Magog

Who are they?

According to my Islamiyat teacher they are believed to be these giant super human species who are breaking an undiscovered wall to get to the world. It is said that they work at the wall all day long and say they will finish it the next day but go to sleep without saying 'InshAllah' and Allah builds back the wall they have broken. It is believed that one day they will say InshAllah and come across and cause havoc in the world.

To me this story sound more like a J. R. Tolkien's book.

[The_Hunk]

Re: Gog and Magog

18: The Cave

1. They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."

2. Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.

3. One (such) way he followed,

4. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

5. He said: "Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before).

6. "But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command."

7. Then followed he (another) way,

8. Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.

9. (He left them) as they were: We completely understood what was before him.

10. Then followed he (another) way,

11. Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word.

12. They said: "O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?

13. He said: "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute): Help me therefore with strength (and labour): I will erect a strong barrier between you and them:

14. "Bring me blocks of iron." At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, "Blow (with your bellows)" Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: "Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead."

15. Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it.

16. He said: "This is a mercy from my Lord: But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true."

17. On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Gog and Magog

Yeah, one of the theories is that ZulQarnain is Alexander the Great.

The verses about the land where the sun sets prompted on researcher to suggest that this might be a race from the Mongolian areas where Alexander had reached into.

[The_Hunk]

Re: Gog and Magog

@PyariCgudia

Yeah, one of the theories is that ZulQarnain is Alexander the Great.

The verses about the land where the sun sets prompted on researcher to suggest that this might be a race from the Mongolian areas where Alexander had reached into.

X Gazillion
If the Mongols are Gog and Magog, how come we know them. And if we know them, how come we’re still living here like nothing.

[TheNewWannaBe]

Re: Gog and Magog

trying to break a wall may not have a literal meaning. as per my belief, this is an extremely evil race which would be true to NO ONE. NO ONE. Not to christians/jews/muslims. as per my belief, THESE ARE HINDUS. jews/christians/muslims must get serious and give this a thought already.

i have heard that they will be very small, look almost like worms in the form of humans. remember my theory on KEERA MAKORAAS?

[CheGuvera]

Re: Gog and Magog

@PyariCgudia

Yeah, one of the theories is that ZulQarnain is Alexander the Great.

The verses about the land where the sun sets prompted on researcher to suggest that this might be a race from the Mongolian areas where Alexander had reached into.

Well you got that totally wrong, much as you have about most other things…The theory is of Zulqarnain (AH) being Cyrus The Great…not Alexander…

[Robert]

Re: Gog and Magog

@CheGuvera

Well you got that totally wrong, much as you have about most other things…The theory is of Zulqarnain (AH) being Cyrus The Great…not Alexander…

Yes, it seems Zulqarnain was Cyrus. But PyariCgudia is not wrong all the times. She uses brain more often than the gogs & magogs of this forum.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Gog and Magog

Not at all. One of the theories is definitely that Og and Magog might have been the Mongols. And that Zulqurnain was Alexander the Great.

Maybe the Cyrus theory is another one - I never came across that one.

It was Yusuf Ali’s theory. This below is an article that I googled with the references, although I can’t find the original article that I had read which was a full essay with references. The below should suffice for you CheGuvera. I wasn’t aware of the Cyrus theory until you mentioned it.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/zulqaranain.htm

[Robert]

Re: Gog and Magog

@PyariCgudia

Not at all. One of the theories is definitely that Og and Magog might have been the Mongols. And that Zulqurnain was Alexander the Great.

Maybe the Cyrus theory is another one - I never came across that one.

It was Yusuf Ali’s theory. This below is an article that I googled with the references, although I can’t find the original article that I had read which was a full essay with references. The below should suffice for you CheGuvera. I wasn’t aware of the Cyrus theory until you mentioned it.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/zulqaranain.htm

Alexander was greek and Zulqurnain was said to pe persian.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Gog and Magog

I'm not remembering the history really well, but Alexander had conquered the Persian lands (or was the the one group he couldn't conquer?)

Robert, its a theory. Not necessarily true or valid. The theory that the Og and Magog were Mongols has major holes on it, although the effort was a good one to match the description in the Quran of the environment of their land with the Mongolian landscape.

[Robert]

Re: Gog and Magog

Yes offcourse these are all theories. No one knows the absolute truth. No one ever will.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Gog and Magog

The thing I've always wondered is, are the verses from Surah Kaf that The Hunk posted supposed to refer to a literal wall, or a metaphorical wall?

Nothing from Islamic sources suggests that there is a roof over the Gog and Magog, or that they are invisible, so woudl they not have been found by airplanes or satellites by now if it was a physical wall with a very large number of people behind it?

Or does the verse simply use iron blocks and poured lead as a metaphor for how such a compelling obstacle was placed before the Gog and Magog that it prevents them from going on the rampage?

Or was the wall physical, but already collapsed, ie have the gog and magog already come and we not realised it?

After all, there is no region on earth left so unmapped that we have missed a large wall with an entire nation behind it.

[ahmadjee]

Re: Gog and Magog

^ :-O

Metaphorical? You are talking blasphemy now.

Search on Google earth again and you will find the wall. If you don't, just try harder.

[Robert]

Re: Gog and Magog

@ahmadjee

^

Metaphorical? You are talking blasphemy now.

Search on Google earth again and you will find the wall. If you don’t, just try harder.

Yes, it is the great wall of china.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Gog and Magog

From what I could understand Yajooj and Majooj are the mischievous people in their land (or on land in general). A wall/barrier was put in place by Dhul Qarnain with help from others (perhaps those in the surrounding area) to protect them from the mischief of Yajooj and Majooj. This barrier will be flattened out close towards the end of time by the Will of Allah (SWT). In addition, there is a hadith where Prophet Muhammad (SAW) talks about how a hole has been created in the barrier.

Here is some supporting material:

he traveled from the east of the earth until he reached a place between the two mountains which were next to one another with a valley in between, from which Ya’juj and Ma’juj (God and Magog) will emerge into the land of the Turks and spread mischief there, destroying crops and people. Ya’juj and Ma’juj are among the progeny of Adam, peace be upon him, as was recorded in the Two Sahihs;

«إِنَّ اللهَ تَعَالَى يَقُولُ: يَا آدَمُ فَيَقُولُ: لَبَّيْكَ وَسَعْدَيْكَ فَيَقُولُ: ابْعَثْ بَعْثَ النَّارِ، فَيَقُولُ: وَمَا بَعْثُ النَّارِ؟ فَيَقُولُ: مِنْ كُلِّ أَلْفٍ تِسْعُمِائَةٍ وَتِسْعَةٌ وَتِسْعُونَ إِلَى النَّارِ وَوَاحِدٌ إِلَى الْجَنَّةِ، فَحِينَئِذٍ يَشِيبُ الصَّغِيرُ وَتَضَعُ كُلُّ ذَاتِ حَمْلٍ حَمْلَهَا. فَقَالَ: إِنَّ فِيكُمْ أُمَّتيْنِ مَا كَانَتَا فِي شَيْءٍ إِلَّا كَثَّرَتَاهُ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوج»

"Allah said: "O Adam.‘’ Adam said, "Here I am at Your service.‘’ Allah said, "Send forth the group of Hellfire.‘’ Adam said, “What is the group of Hellfire” Allah said: "Out of every thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine will go to Hell and one will go to Paradise.‘’ At that time young men will turn grey and every pregnant female will drop her load. Among you are two nations who never come to anything but they overwhelm it with their huge numbers. (They are) Ya’juj and Ma’juj (Fath Al-Bari 8:295, Muslim 1:201).‘’

(They said: "O Dhul-Qarnayn! Verily, Ya’juj and Ma’juj are doing great mischief in the land. Shall we then pay you a tribute’') Ibn Jurayj reported from Ata' from Ibn Abbas that this meant a great reward, i.e., they wanted to collect money among themselves to give to him so that he would create a barrier between them and Ya’juj and Ma’juj. Dhul-Qarnayn said with kindness, righteousness and good intentions,

مَا مَكَّنِّى فِيهِ رَبِّى خَيْرٌ]

(That in which my Lord had established me is better (than your tribute).) meaning, the power and authority that Allah has given me is better for me than what you have collected.

(I will erect between you and them a barrier. Give me Zubar of iron,) Zubar is the plural of Zubrah, which means pieces or chunks of something. This was the view of Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid and Qatadah. These pieces were like bricks or blocks, and it was said that each block weighed one Damascene Qintar or more.

حَتَّى إِذَا سَاوَى بَيْنَ الصَّدَفَيْنِ]

(then, when he had filled up the gap between the two mountain-cliffs,) means, he put the blocks on top of one another, starting at the bottom, until he reached the tops of the mountains, filling the width and height of the gap. The scholars differed about the precise width and height.

قَالَ انفُخُواْ]

(he said: "Blow;‘’) means, he lit a fire until the whole thing was burning hot.

قَالَ آتُونِى أُفْرِغْ عَلَيْهِ قِطْراً]

(he said: "Bring me Qitran to pour over them.‘’) Ibn Abbas, Mujahid, Ikrimah, Ad-Dahhak, Qatadah and As-Suddi said it was copper. Some of them added that it was molten. This is similar to the Ayah:

وَأَسَلْنَا لَهُ عَيْنَ الْقِطْرِ]

(And We caused a fount of Qitran to flow for him) [34:12]. So it resembled a striped cloak.

Source: His Journey to the Land of Ya’juj and Ma’juj, and building the Barrier

Allah tells us that Ya’juj and Ma’juj could not climb over the barrier or penetrate its lower portion. Varying forms of the verb are used here in the Arabic text to reflect the difficulty of the action referred to.

فَمَا اسْطَـعُواْ أَن يَظْهَرُوهُ وَمَا اسْتَطَـعُواْ لَهُ نَقْبًا ]

(So they (Ya’juj and Ma’juj) could not scale it or dig through it.) This indicates that they could not penetrate it or dig through it. Imam Ahmad recorded that Zaynab bint Jahsh, the wife of the Prophet said, "The Prophet woke from sleep, and he was red in the face. He said,

«لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ وَيْلٌ لِلْعَرَبِ مِنْ شَرَ قَدِ اقْتَرَبَ فُتِحَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ رَدْمِ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ مِثْلُ هَذَا»

(La ilaha illallah! Woe to the Arabs from the evil that has approached (them). Today a hole has been opened in the barrier of Ya’juj and Ma’juj like this.) and he made a circle with his index finger and thumb. I [Zaynab] said, `O Messenger of Allah, will we be destroyed even though there will be righteous people among us’ He said:

«نَعَمْ إِذَا كَثُرَ الْخَبَث»

(Yes, if evil increases.)‘’ This is a Sahih Hadith, both Al-Bukhari and Muslim recorded it.

((Dhul-Qarnayn) said: "This is a mercy from my Lord…‘’) meaning, after it was built by Dhul-Qarnayn.

قَالَ هَـذَا رَحْمَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّى]

(He said: This is a mercy from my Lord) for the people, when he placed a barrier between them and Ya’juj and Ma’juj, to stop them from spreading evil and corruption on earth.

فَإِذَا جَآءَ وَعْدُ رَبِّى]

(but when the promise of my Lord comes) means, when the true promise comes

جَعَلَهُ دَكَّآءَ]

(He shall Dakka’ it down to the ground.) means, will make it flat.

(And the promise of my Lord is ever true.) means, it will come to pass without a doubt.

وَتَرَكْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ]

(We shall leave some of them) meaning mankind, on that day, the day when the barrier will be breached and these people (Ya’juj and Ma’juj) will come out surging over mankind to destroy their wealth and property.

وَتَرَكْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ يَمُوجُ فِى بَعْضٍ]

(We shall leave some of them to surge like waves on one another;) As-Suddi said: "That is when they emerge upon the people.‘’ All of this will happen before the Day of Resurrection and after the Dajjal, as we will explain when discussing the Ayat:

حَتَّى إِذَا فُتِحَتْ يَأْجُوجُ وَمَأْجُوجُ وَهُمْ مِّن كُلِّ حَدَبٍ يَنسِلُونَ وَاقْتَرَبَ الْوَعْدُ الْحَقُّ]

(Until, when Ya’juj and Ma’juj are let loose, and they swoop down from every Hadab. And the true promise shall draw near…) [21:96-97]

Source: The Barrier restrains Them, but It will be breached when the Hour draws nigh

[CM]

Re: Gog and Magog

Its very interesting to note that Gog and Magog are also part of Christain mythology and represent demons of great power hell bent on destroying the human race. I had no clue that they were mentioned in the Quran. I need to read the translation of the Quran.

[The_Old_Man]

Re: Gog and Magog

@CM

Its very interesting to note that Gog and Magog are also part of Christain mythology and represent demons of great power hell bent on destroying the human race. I had no clue that they were mentioned in the Quran. I need to read the translation of the Quran.

I was following the debate here with interest as it is teaching me something new of Islam. Glad some young man will start giving more attention to the Quran as well!

I did not want to bring up the Christian side as it might derail what is presently debated but more can be read about it in

1. Gen.10v2 where Magog is a son of Japheth (Noah’s son)
2. Ezek.38-39 prophesy of the defeat of Gog and Magog at the end of times
3. Rev.20v8 where the Gog and Magog will be nations that will do battle against Jerusalem at the end of times, same as per the prophet Ezekiel

Christian scholars differ as to who or what country form part of the Gog and Magog. Gog according to Ezekiel is from a country called Magog and prince over Meshech and Tubal.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Gog and Magog

@PyariCgudia

I suspect some of them already frequent this site

yeaa i know what iam laughing at, but this one was genuinely funny.