God is Not Great

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: God is Not Great

It is just that when we see this amazing situation we don't conclude that it could happen by chance ... we are compelled to conclude by reflection or by what noble people before us have conclude that Deity is Real. We have no arrogance in this matter rather when we try to fathom Deity it should make us humble.

Look ...

We learn in science that had the Earth not been this far from the sun then water would be in constant vapour form, or constantly frozen ... Just look at Venus and Mars planets either side of us - no signs of life ... Then we have the magnetic field - it is because our planet's core has iron in it ... that iron could not have come from our star because iron is produced in super stars ... so our planet is the fall out of a previous system that went nova then later the bits came together through a nebula the centre at which was our star - the Sun ... Furthermore, if we didn't have iron in our core then we would have a poor atmosphere because the solar rays would be too lethal for the Earth to sustain life, the fact that we have a magnetic field around us means that many harmful rays are deflected back in to the expanse of space.

It is amazing that we have a natural satellite - the Moon that circulates us and the tides flow because it stretches the Earth as it swings around us. We have means to measure calendar time because of it and the Sun gives us times in the day ... Then we have life itself - and how different life forms depend on one another to survive, but have in themselves shown no reason to be symbiotic ... This fine balance - is not something accidental - it cannot be ... In order for us to exist so many other things would have needed to exist ... It would like throwing 100 coins up in the air and 5 of them landing edge on edge on top of one another ... neither heads or tails but on the rim edge - one on top of the other ... This is the thing ... when we think of that happening in any other situation the first thing we arrive at is that something conscious is causing that to happen - the entropy required for that to just occur is too low ... it is considered impossible if it were not a result of intelligent intervention. Yet we do not draw the same conclusions when it comes to the life we see around us everyday.

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Peace bebo

Now you previously liked sharaabee's post for falsely saying that my posts are circular ... But this very short statement of yours is circular!!!
The natural question one asks is - if you can say that something is "tuned" then why do you not take the further step to ask "by whom?" .... Something to be tuned infers intelligence doesn't it?

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Then there would be no difference between you and an angel ... Creatures who do not have to struggle with faith - i.e. ones that know He Exists - will constantly worship Him ... We are given a very definite set of reasons why God is hidden from us.

1) Revealing Himself to us will destroy us - As He must be veiled from us for us to exist in this form.
2) Our struggle to find Him in our hearts is the test of this world - to attain Paradise
3) He demonstrates that He is needless of our worship by allowing us to forget Him
4) His promise of Freedom of Choice is ordained through being hidden from us

And so many more ...

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I'm tempted to take religion seriously, every time someone tries to scare me with the threat of eternal hell fire.

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I should believe that Muslims are better than other people, when they clearly aren't. Muslims raping and murdering is okay cause it was sanctioned by Allah. I should believe that women are a source of fitnah and there will be more of them in hell.
How do you explain more women in hell, given they have free will. Or are they designed to commit more sins? That's unfair. How do you explain the misogyny in Islam. Women aren't allowed to make their own decisions, they aren't allowed to go out alone without a mahram. What makes men better than women?
And when are you going to kill all the murtids over here for exercising their free will and renouncing Islam.

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If we know of the existence of just one universe which happens to be fine tuned to sustain life then it is just too much of a coincidence. There could have been many possibilities of the values of these universal constants but the ones that we have are those which support life.
It is like there is only one person who can buy lottery ticket and the only ticket he buys, turns out to be a winner. This is not possible without some intervention.

Thus God is the ONLY logical answer. And if you think it is not logical answer then you don't understand the argument. Try getting some knowledge about the subject before throwing your fatwas around, BEBO.

[quote]
If you do believe that there is a creator then why just one? Why not multiple deities?? What makes you believe that there can be only one god?
[/quote]

And what made you think this is even being discussed here?

[quote]
physicist are working on a possible explanation.
[/quote]

Atheists were running chickens. The only possible explanation they came up with is multiverse. But this can never be proven. It is a mere speculation.
So the only evidence we have points to intelligent design.

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We may not know how it was created or designed but we know very well the outcome. The argument of a fine-tuned universe is about the impossible coincidence we see in this outcome.

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This is a very naive argument.
You are lying if you say that you will accept Him if he just shows Himself up.
And his valid proof of existence is there. The only way you can disprove it is through your belief in His nonexistence.

BTW, I have seen that when people become too specific in their nicks then they are usually lying. "SaeedinPakistan"?!

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Peace SaeedinPakistan

These questions are for a different topic, **I hope moderators will cut off your question and my response to make a new thread ...

Titled: "Problems with the Islamic faith"

**Q1) You ask whether you should believe that Muslims should be better than other people when they clearly are not - by extension you say that Muslims are sanctioned by Allah to rape and murder.

A1) There is no rape or murder sanctioned by Allah (SWT) ... Muslims are not better either. Yes, our ideal (we believe) is best ... but that does not mean WE are better ... The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said in his final sermon "No Arab superior to a non-Arab and vice-verse, no white superior to a black and vice-versa, except by his conduct"

Q2) Are women a source of fitnah? Will there be more of them in hell?

A2) We don't know if there will be more in hell ... the particular reference is when Hz. Muhammad (SAW) saw a glimpse of hell - when on the night journey and saw on that instance many women ... those who were not grateful to their husbands ... It was related to the people to encourage the women to spend in the way of Allah (SWT) ... despite there being fewer burdens of duty on them. Are women a source of fitnah?

Fitnah is not a bad word ... The Prophet Yusuf (AS) was a fitnah for the women of his time - and the Potiphar's wife also saw him (AS) as a fitnah - one where she was going to be betray her morals just to be with him ... Fitnah means (test or trial) ... Also, children are fitnah in another way ... wealth is a fitnah in another way ... women are a fitnah because our softness for them can make us close to bending our morals in order to please them ... By being aware of this we can be prepared for this ...

Q3) How do I explain more women in hell given they have free will ...

A3) This has already been explained, but the reality is more women are born and women live longer on average - throughout the history of mankind that all adds up ... free will has nothing to do with it.

Q4) Are they designed to commit more sins? That's unfair.

A4) No, they are given less religious responsibilities because they have other factors to contend with - in the long run every individual is assessed individually - his or her potential to sin is compared against their societal influence, i.e. their upbringing, also their capabilities to understand and their sincere efforts to be good are taken to account before a sin is given is payment.

Q5) How do you explain the mysogyny in Islam?

A5) It is just a way of accomodating but capping a natural human tendency ... The stress on a monogomous marriage far outweighs the acceptability of multiple wives, and to show how unfair - extra-marital affairs are - Islam binds any consideration of further relationships to be restricted within the marriage framework - giving the women rights over their husband, that girl friends would otherwise not have ...

Q6) Are women allowed to make their own decisions?

A6) Yes they are ... unfortunately many men think they are not allowed to make their own decisions ... Remember Islam says there is "no complusion in faith" ... and there is a type of etiquette expected in marriage where wife should be dutiful to her husband, but he should be caring to her - or else he should not expect her to be dutiful.

Q7) Are women allowed to go out alone without a mahram?

A7) Yes they are, but it is no advisable for them to go too far for their safety ... it is because we do not trust some dodgy men who may take advantage of them. Just imagine the Queen saying that she wants to go to Nigeria for a weekend break, and she jumps on a plane and travels there herself ... not only will she be hampered with carrying her own bags, dealing with the bribes herself but she will have to make every arrangement herself and at the same time be careful for not being taken away ... Should we not treat our women like royalty? Of course, the can go out themselves ... but they will do so willingly against the advice. I personally disagree with regimes that make non-mahram travel a punishable crime ... it is not a punishable crime - It is not even a crime in that sense - it is merely good advice.

Q8) What makes men better than women?

A8) I think with my last answer - you should be asking "what makes women better than men?" Answer - nothing - we each have different roles to play in society.

Q9) When are all the murtids going to be killed?

A9) A person can exercise his free will and renounce his faith ... not a problem ... but in an Islamic country where Islam is promoted any person preaching against Islam is doing treason ... Treason is still a major crime in most tribunals around the world punishable by death ... or at least extradition ... Since we have this option - the better thing to do with such people is to throw them to a country that will take them - otherwise convince them to remain silent in their disbelief i.e. not to preach against Islam becoming an enemy to Islam in which case they can remain and enjoy the protection from the state. At no point should harm come to them.

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I like the part where you take everything science have helped you discover, and just add, OH BTW GOD DID IT ALL, LOL. It is sad to hear that.

200 years ago, you would've said, well the tides come and go, it's beautiful. God MUST make that happen magically. Then we found out, that an alien rock we call the moon, smashed into the earth and stuck around us causing these tides. My point is, that religion is a RECEDING pocket of ignorance, and will continue to recede into simpler and simpler terms as we continue to break religious myths.

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Khoji what is with the usage of fatwa at the drop of a pagdi? And despise?

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Hold on to that laugh a bit philsophy chanda!

Perhaps some english lesson would help :slight_smile:

Checkout the synonyms section in the definition # 2 at the following:

Theory | Define Theory at Dictionary.com

Here is the exerpt from there for your reading pleasure:

  1. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

Synonyms: idea, notion hypothesis, postulate. Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation.

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I suspect you do not understand what is being said. When scientists use the word theory, it has a different meaning to normal everyday use:
Evolution is Not Just a Theory: home

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I believe you’re unaware of the context for which the defintion was given.

I need proof and evidence on Multiverse theory. Help a brother here.

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Professor: Today I will prove you that if God exists, then he is evil. Has God created all and everything?

Class nods!

Professor: So this means that God is evil!

Students stands up and ask Professor:

Does cold exist?

Professor: Of course it does, have you never been cold?

Student: No, in fact cold does not exist. According to th law of physics, what we consider cold, is in reality the absence of heat. Does darkness exist Professor?

Professor: Of course it does!

Student: No, in fact darkness does not exist either. Darkness is the absence of light. We can study light, but not the darkness. Evil does not exist like cold and darkness. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when Man does not have God's love present in his heart.

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

I think I don't need to explain who Albert Einstein was. One, I guess, who had to use BRAIN and LOGIC to become one of the greatest scientists ever.

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Why don't you talk only when you are talked to? Or are you BEBO with another nick?

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Bigboi, there is more to it when Einstein proved that professor's brain did not exist if he were to apply his own logic. :D

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einstein proved professor's brain didn't exist? LOL naive religious people will believe any fake spam on the interwebs, and then want to discuss evolution. -___-

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^ If it is really so then why don't you blame individuals instead of adding the prefix "religious"?
Actually your doing it shows your own naivety. (See! I didn't say that every atheist is naive, just because you are).

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its true though - religious people swallow down all kinds of unbelievable idiocy as long as it is said with some holy words in it. its not the jinx being an isolated case. heck, they even argue for 1000s of years over fictional things and kill each other for generations in the name of truth for their gods. but in the end Einstein proves professor has no brain. :hehe: