Why don’t you guys leave him alone. So he believes there are “many” paths to God - why does that have to bother anyone else? That’s his belief. As someone stated earlier in this thread, being “Muslim” doesn’t necessarily give us guaranteed access to heaven (Nauzubillah). Who besides Allah is the sole Judge of that? Maybe he’s more pious in his dealings and affairs than i am, maybe i’m just a Muslim by name. Who knows?
If he’s secure in his beliefs, let him be. Put yourself in his shoes and ask yourself how you would feel if someone from a nonIslamic faith stated, “I and those who think like me are superior and we are going to heaven and the rest of you aren’t.” Wouldn’t you feel disgusted by the arrogance. i, for one, would. Closeness to Allah isn’t determined by the label you give yourself (Muslim or not). Alone, God determines who is pious and who deserves to be granted access to heaven. Maybe he is more honest and humble than all of us put together; maybe we have more problems in our own lives to deal with than worrying about someone else’s faith. Maybe we have social ills around the world that deserve more of our attention than one person’s faith. i’m sure he is relatively well-read on Islam. He’s made a choice that he feels he is comfortable with. Who am i to judge his level of piety or spirituality when i myself am not perfect?
The invitation extends to all - please go ahead, now you can all crucify me.
It's not about perfectness or your level of spirituality and faith. When he mentioned "best of all creatures" and "superior above all others", it was a bit dubious because nobody mentioned that in this thread. If his statement doesn't refer to any of the replies in this thread, then I apologize for misinterpreting his statement.
By the way, yahudi is not expressing his own beliefs, it's just that he is trying to defy Islamic terminology and creating disillusionment about our religion. Here, all Muslims stand together, determined to extirpate all his contradicting questions. And not only take a firm stand , but we should venture in a fashion that clears all the disillusions from his mind.
It's not that I am against him, but it's a matter of denying his anti-islamic views aimed upon us-that is Muslims.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
"I and those who think like me are superior and we are going to heaven and the rest of you aren't." Wouldn't you feel disgusted by the arrogance. i, for one, would.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah i do agree with your point but have you seen anyone who says, that my religion is the worst of all, thats why i believe in it?
I don't know why but I have a feeling that you will feel disgusted only because you disagrees to them, and thinks it is you who is superior. So this portrays that the belief in superiority of one's own opinion is fundamental. If we will not think one religion is superior, why will we follow it? The matter here is not believing in our personal opinion but it is the matter of believing in the superiority of our religion. I would like to reiterate it "If we will not think one religion is superior, why will we follow it?
You sound like you are trying to confess that Islam is a religion of cruelty and bloodshed, which wants people to accept it or otherwise kills them. For your information, I’ve found some verses of Quran that deals with the same verse in a different aspect. Islam offers a complete freedom of religion. As Quran says, “There is no compulsion in religion.”(2:257) It also says that it is upto an individual whether accept or deny the Islamic teachings. “O ye men! now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! Those who receive guidance do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs.” (10:108)
“Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth for (instructing) mankind. He then that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.”(39:41)
One verse that gives a clear answer to a part of your question:
“If it had been the Lord’s Will they would all have believed all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind against their will to believe!”(10:99)
Islam respects the religious feelings of non-muslims. The verse you pointed in this thread is not for non-believers. It is for those who can never accept Islam and no one knows who will and who won’t except Allah.
“And abuse not those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they, out of spite, abuse Allah in their ignorance. Thus unto every people have WE caused their doings to seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return; And HE will inform them of what they used to do.”(6:108)
As for us Muslims, it is our job to guide others to “Siraat-e-Mustaqeem”(right path).
“Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance.”(16:125)
It’s not being superior but if you do find anything objective, you are most welcome to ask about it.
At this point, I would like to clarify that Quran doesn’t say that all Non-Muslims are bad but there is a special note for real God-fearing non-muslims.
“Surely those who believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians - whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve.” (5:69,70)
As you say in the last sentence of your very first post in this thread
you must look at the verses that conveys the message of peace with non-muslims.
“Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.”(2:193)
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress; for Allah loveth not transgressors.”(2:190)
In the last verse, it clearly says that it’s not against every non muslim but it is only against specific.
“Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.”(60:8)
“But if the enemy incline towards peace do thou (also) incline towards peace and trust in Allah: for He is the one that heareth and knoweth (all things).” (8:61)
“And if anyone of the idolaters seeks protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.”(9:6)
This verse is a great paradigm of leniency and forebearance to those who are just.
I would again like to say that the verse you mentioned isn’t the only one about non-muslims and I already explained about that verse. It isn’t what you think and you should never jump to conclusions without having a knowledge of whole thing. You better look at the explanation of each verse and its context. That will really help you in drawing sound conclusions instead of hasty ones.:flower1:
[If you still have any question you could ask me or Paaga| |nsaan. I would like to thank him for compiling verses for me. His name is equally worthy of mentioning with mine.]
Dear Galaxi, thanks for your efforts,
I think I have written somewhere that it is not very necessary to be associated to some party, political or religious.
All such non-sense is needed for a fake identification.
I do not accept any kind of angel appearance. Did you never put up a question to yourself, why Quran contradict itself so much, that in some verses disbelievers are abused without limits and in some others, their religions are recognized? (If their religion is recognized, they cease to be disbeliever, even if they reject the Ayats.)
The Prophet narrated verses as per the situation, political or religious, demanded. And this is the reason that you need contexts all the time so that your intelligence does not doubt or question.
Let me inform you that mostly Hindus, Jews, Christians or any other community are not opposed to reforms.
Did you ever pay attention why Muslim community is so rigid? Answer, you will find in the setup of Islam.
My dear friend, you are missing the point. Of course, our faith is precious to us - infact it is more precious to us than our own lives, or the lives of those we love the most in this world. Thrusting our belief in the superiority of our faith, into the face of another person, is the point. The point is not whether or not we believe our faith to be superior (Seminole must think he is on the “right” path just as we all think we are on the “right” path). Humbly and respectfully, may i say that’s not the point. The point is - how far does (or should) one go in articulating that superiority towards others. i know you are not ‘forcing’ Seminole to believe anything, infact your reply to me was extremely politely-worded, i expected far worse from some Guppies in this Forum. So i am grateful for your kind reply, thank you
Do you remember that hadith where Prophet Muhammad (may God’s peace and blessings be upon him) saw an old lady struggling with a heavy load and he offered to carry it for her? She did not know who he was. During their walk together to her home, she continually slandered the Prophet (without knowing that it was him she was talking to), heaping insults upon insults against his character (calling him a jadoogar and worse, Nauzubillah). He stayed quiet the entire time, not uttering a syllable in his defence, not even when his character was being insulted. When they reached her doorstep, he placed down the load that he was carrying and told her who he was. She was so impressed by his character, by his amazing forbearance in the face of her verbal slanderings, that she accepted Islam right there and then.
The point of my little lecture is that, we shouldn’t be so ‘insecure’ (if i may say that word) in our beliefs as to force others to acknowledge our faith’s superiority. Let others judge you by your character, that can be the greatest expression of one’s devotion to one’s faith. To Seminole, it must look like i am the most arrogant individual on the face of this planet if i am to claim to him that he’s going to hell for not being a Muslim. It was the character of Prophet Muhammad (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) that impressed even his worst foes, and compelled them to speak of him with praise and respect. It was not his proclamations of superiority. Let Allah be the Judge of who passes through the gates of heaven and hell. i have enough problems in my own life and faults within my character to even keep up a pretence that, simply by calling myself a Muslim, i might be blessed enough to enter jannat. Allah is the Judge of that, no one else.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yahudi: *
.....
Let me inform you that mostly Hindus, Jews, Christians or any other community are not opposed to reforms.
Did you ever pay attention why Muslim community is so rigid? Answer, you will find in the setup of Islam.....
[/QUOTE]
Do you wonder why Muslims don't take "bible" or any other books (other than Quran) as "Original"? This is one of the main reasons that followers of many religions have twisted, bent the religion as per their desire, hence it became "man made religion". What you call "reform" is another name of "human desire". Why did Allah swt sent so many messengers? Because as time passed followers changed their religion/faith and God sent a messenger to revive faith/religion.
Do you wonder why Muslims don't take "bible" or any other books (other than Quran) as "Original"? This is one of the main reasons that followers of many religions have twisted, bent the religion as per their desire, hence it became "man made religion". What you call "reform" is another name of "human desire". Why did Allah swt sent so many messengers? Because as time passed followers changed their religion/faith and God sent a messenger to revive faith/religion.
[/QUOTE]
Changez_like,
If I believed in God. Say circa 3000 B.C.E.
And Allah sent a messanger.
Say circa 150 B.C.E.
And Allah sent a messanger.
And I continued in my beliefs.
Say circa 6 B.C.E.
And Allah sent a messenger.
Say its circa 600 C.E.
Would you consider me friend? foe? believer? muslim? jew? christian?
Say it's circa 5000 C.E.
And God is still with us.
Think we might be brothers and sisters? Or do you think we would still argue over Allah's prophets?
Do you think we would still use Allah's name to take up arms against each other?
IMHO... using Allah's name to take up arms is the greatest sin of all.
Why don’t you guys leave him alone. So he believes there are “many” paths to God - why does that have to bother anyone else? That’s his belief. As someone stated earlier in this thread, being “Muslim” doesn’t necessarily give us guaranteed access to heaven (Nauzubillah). Who besides Allah is the sole Judge of that? Maybe he’s more pious in his dealings and affairs than i am, maybe i’m just a Muslim by name. Who knows?