It is usually considered as the part of faiths that God decides the time that when a person will born and when he’ll die so He is the one who controls birth and death. But on the other hand we see that progressed countries have much longer average age than a person from 3rd world country, like in Japan average age is above 80 years, in Pakistan it is 65 years and countries like Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Zambia, the average age is below 45 years.
So where is the God if the life time is defined by health structure and environment which is created wholly by men?
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
It is usually considered as the part of faiths that God decides the time that when a person will born and when he'll die so He is the one who controls birth and death. But on the other hand we see that progressed countries have much longer average age than a person from 3rd world country, like in Japan average age is above 80 years, in Pakistan it is 65 years and countries like Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Zambia, the average age is below 45 years. So where is the God if the life time is defined by health structure and environment which is created wholly by men?
This is called plain use of logic to make it look like it is true.
God controls not only the life and death but the circumstances of life and death.
Here is the answer with another logic.
Can you prove by any means anyone who died at the age of 45 in Zimbabwe would really have survived beyond 45 if he had lived in Japan?
Please prove it. No assumptions.
Besides you are looking at average life. Does not mean everyone lives long in Japan.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Can you prove by any means anyone who died at the age of 45 in Zimbabwe would really have survived beyond 45 if he had lived in Japan?
Yup he can. Why not the People of Japan don't die at the age of 45? must be their health structure, food, pollution free environment and many things have an effect on the average life of Japanese, so I'm sure if you send a bunch of pakistani and zimbabwian to live in japan there will definitely be an increase in average life!
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Freudian slip my dear Multi?
If you’re going to start a debate, you better get the jewels to represent yourself! 
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Yup he can. Why not the People of Japan don't die at the age of 45? must be their health structure, food, pollution free environment and many things have an effect on the average life of Japanese, so **I'm sure **if you send a bunch of pakistani and zimbabwian to live in japan there will definitely be an increase in average life!
You are sure of something which you can never prove?
The core issue is that it is understood that a particular person has a set lifetime and no matter what anyone does, cannot increase that time. The diseases and any other reasons for death are also controlled by God.
Like I said even the circumstances are controlled by God so if anyone to move to japan and lives longer as you will observe will be due to God giving these people the means and idea to move.
So that is where God lies in your original question. You are looking at end result and I am talking about bigger picture. Got it?
See life and death are absolute terms and you will never be able to prove what I asked you to prove. If you want to be sure on something based on assumptions then it is your prerogative. :)
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
This is called plain use of logic to make it look like it is true.
Besides you are looking at average life. Does not mean everyone lives long in Japan.
Uhhh what?
You do know what the word average means right?
Place A - Average age 50
Place B - Average age 30
Are you trying to say it would be wrong to infer that people live longer in Place A?
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
You are sure of something which you can never prove?
The core issue is that it is understood that a particular person has a set lifetime and no matter what anyone does, cannot increase that time. The diseases and any other reasons for death are also controlled by God.
Like I said even the circumstances are controlled by God so if anyone to move to japan and lives longer as you will observe will be due to God giving these people the means and idea to move.
So that is where God lies in your original question. You are looking at end result and I am talking about bigger picture. Got it?
See life and death are absolute terms and you will never be able to prove what I asked you to prove. If you want to be sure on something based on assumptions then it is your prerogative. :)
I think this sums it up nicely. ;)
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
It is usually considered as the part of faiths that God decides the time that when a person will born and when he'll die so He is the one who controls birth and death. But on the other hand we see that progressed countries have much longer average age than a person from 3rd world country, like in Japan average age is above 80 years, in Pakistan it is 65 years and countries like Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Zambia, the average age is below 45 years. So where is the God if the life time is defined by health structure and environment which is created wholly by men?
What is your point of your post ? If you are trying to weaken the faith of those who believe in Allah , then I would say good luck with that.
If you are looking to strengthen your belief in non existence of Allah by sharing your views with those who relate to yours , you will not find many on these forums.
If you are looking for reasons to believe then you can find millions of reasons around you.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Uhhh what?
You do know what the word average means right?
Place A - Average age 50 Place B - Average age 30
Are you trying to say it would be wrong to infer that people live longer in Place A?
Let me copy here my post and make the sentence bold.
This is called plain use of logic to make it look like it is true.
God controls not only the life and death but the circumstances of life and death.
Here is the answer with another logic.
Can you prove by any means anyone who died at the age of 45 in Zimbabwe would really have survived beyond 45 if he had lived in Japan?
Please prove it. No assumptions.
Besides you are looking at average life.** Does not mean everyone lives long in Japan**.
What part of this bold sentence was wrong? I never refuted the differences in **average lives **of two areas.
Having said that, average life of people in any area may be different from another area, but **individual life **can be anywhere from infant to around 100 years or so.
Why there may be a difference in average life expectancy of people based on the different areas, and we may find the reasons for it,....... but those who believe on God say those reasons are also controlled by God.
Hope you understood my post(s) a little better.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
What is your point of your post ? If you are trying to weaken the faith of those who believe in Allah , then I would say good luck with that. If you are looking to strengthen your belief in non existence of Allah by sharing your views with those who relate to yours , you will not find many on these forums. If you are looking for reasons to believe then you can find millions of reasons around you.
You are very quick to jump on conclusion, ain't you?
There is a thing called sharing of ideas why don't you put some time to meditate what are ideas?
When someone post something it doesn't mean at all that he or she have full faith on the words rather it may be meant to get the ideas of other people which may be more logical.
There were so many other points against your LOGICAL comment, but want to save my time by not indulging into irrelevent discussion.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
You are sure of something which you can never prove?
The core issue is that it is understood that a particular person has a set lifetime and no matter what anyone does, cannot increase that time. The diseases and any other reasons for death are also controlled by God.
Like I said even the circumstances are controlled by God so if anyone to move to japan and lives longer as you will observe will be due to God giving these people the means and idea to move.
So that is where God lies in your original question. You are looking at end result and I am talking about bigger picture. Got it?
See life and death are absolute terms and you will never be able to prove what I asked you to prove. If you want to be sure on something based on assumptions then it is your prerogative. :)
Well' you did use the word of circumstances, in the current picture these circumstances can be factors which playful in determining the average age plus you did include that God is giving the idea and mean to move in circumstances. By the way will you please clarify me how the circumstances are created, if Pakistanis are suffering then this situation or these circumstances are created by God or us?
If He is the one who creates the circumstances then again all the wrong doings are justified, no person is responsible since it's not really been done by him.
If on the other hand, human beings are the one who creates this atmosphere or circumstances, in some particular parts of the world they have improved their average lifetime and some other part they were not capable enough to do so and hence worsen their lifetime. Doesn't it make more sense?
For your last sentences, if I can't prove life and death of course you are not proving too, your points are also based upon faith not logic, ain't they?
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
You are very quick to jump on conclusion, ain't you? There is a thing called sharing of ideas why don't you put some time to meditate what are ideas? When someone post something it doesn't mean at all that he or she have full faith on the words rather it may be meant to get the ideas of other people which may be more logical. There were so many other points against your LOGICAL comment, but want to save my time by not indulging into irrelevent discussion.
Yes I do not want to indulge into pointless discussion with a non believer. Since You asked a valid question therefore I asked you many questions to see where you are coming from .
If you are a believer and are having some doubts I can try to strengthen your belief by giving you a pointer or two.
If you are non believer any logic I will give you will fall flat on you.
All the logic in the world cannot prove to a non believer that Allah exists same way all the logic in the world cannot disprove to a believer that Allah does not exist.
Faith is the ultimate logic for a believer and to a non believer it is fairy tale.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Yes I do not want to indulge into pointless discussion with a non believer.
If you are a believer and are having some doubts I can try to strengthen your belief by giving you a pointer or two.
If you are non believer any logic I will give you will fall flat on you.
once again a complete display of utter senseless stuff.. again conclusions first and discussion afterward.. declared me non-believer first and then asking me whether I'm a believer or not.
someone have belief or not, it is totally his or her personal matter, if you have some logical points to share, do share it without pondering into things that they will go flat or not, simple because the point is to share and discuss not to poke noses in others personal things!
Do share if you have any rational points, but main point is again, LOGIC :)
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Well' you did use the word of circumstances, in the current picture these circumstances can be factors which playful in determining the average age plus you did include that God is giving the idea and mean to move in circumstances. By the way will you please clarify me how the circumstances are created, if Pakistanis are suffering then **this situation or these circumstances are created by God or us? **If He is the one who creates the circumstances then again all the wrong doings are justified, no person is responsible since it's not really been done by him.
If on the other hand, human beings are the one who creates this atmosphere or circumstances, in some particular parts of the world they have improved their average lifetime and some other part they were not capable enough to do so and hence worsen their lifetime. Doesn't it make more sense?
For your last sentences, if I can't prove life and death of course you are not proving too, your points are also based upon faith not logic, ain't they?
Answer is ....God.
God is the creator.
He created people living in Pakistan, Japan and Zimbabway.
Hence whatever they do is ultimately his control. Is that a better answer?
You have now changed your question from final results to something called 'suffering' which is not the same as death or life situation.
OK Fine.
Everything is owned by God and when it is said, the circumstances are created by God, that means God has the knowledge of what is to happen and what is supposed to be the end result of any action by his creations.
He gave some freedom of choice to his creation.
He wants you to act good based on your abilities and where you are unable to do something, you are not liable.
Coming to the point, when someone makes bad choice or good choice, even though the person is making a free decision and ....even though God is the one who created the brain and made the person think in certan way, .....God is NOT RESPONSIBLE if the person knowingly did something wrong.
You see, even though God does control the events, he is not responsible if the acts were chosen by people were wrong.
A crude example is:
You own a car.
You lend the car to someone with valid license to drive.
You are in control weather to give the car to someone or not.
Eventually the person did not obey the laws and gets hurt while driving.
**Who is responsble?
You or that person?
**
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Hopes, give it up man. It's pointless arguing about logic here. Many have tried and failed miserably. You are not going to change anyone's mind or even provoke them to think, lol. Religion it the ultimate truth for the believers. God is in everything and IS everything. You will get rediculously illogical head scratching answers here. You ask a question, you will be asked to prove something completely irrelavent to the topic. And they will accuse you of having some of kind of an agenda. It's not an assumption, it's something I have noticed with EVERY single post here. Let it go...
If you want to hear a logical answer, you are not going to find it here. Whatever defies logic in our mind is not god's fault in the mind of a believer. It's simple as that.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
You know what defies logic for me? The way you 'smarter than thou' athiests with an agenda think how everything, EVERYTHING just came about into existence from nothingness with a big bang. Rant on about your logic all you want :).
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
once again a complete display of utter senseless stuff.. again conclusions first and discussion afterward.. declared me non-believer first and then asking me whether I'm a believer or not.
someone have belief or not, it is totally his or her personal matter, if you have some logical points to share, do share it without pondering into things that they will go flat or not, simple because the point is to share and discuss not to poke noses in others personal things!
Do share if you have any rational points, but main point is again, LOGIC :)
Clearly you have an atheistic agenda and comprehension issues too therefore I am out of this thread. See you some other time in some other discussion , hopefully not a pointless religious discussion. So Long.
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Hopes, give it up man. It's pointless arguing about logic here. Many have tried and failed miserably. You are not going to change anyone's mind or even provoke them to think, lol. Religion it the ultimate truth for the believers. God is in everything and IS everything. You will get rediculously illogical head scratching answers here. You ask a question, you will be asked to prove something completely irrelavent to the topic. And they will accuse you of having some of kind of an agenda. It's not an assumption, it's something I have noticed with EVERY single post here. Let it go...
If you want to hear a logical answer, you are not going to find it here. Whatever defies logic in our mind is not god's fault in the mind of a believer. It's simple as that.
Same exact advice I give to those who believe on God when they discuss with so called atheists.
Logic is what atheists lack or they use it to deny what they see right infront of their eyes.
Very sorry, but there is a disconnect between their eyes and brain somewhere. :(
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Hopes, give it up man. It's pointless arguing about logic here. Many have tried and failed miserably. You are not going to change anyone's mind or even provoke them to think, lol. Religion it the ultimate truth for the believers. God is in everything and IS everything. You will get rediculously illogical head scratching answers here. You ask a question, you will be asked to prove something completely irrelavent to the topic. And they will accuse you of having some of kind of an agenda. It's not an assumption, it's something I have noticed with EVERY single post here. Let it go...
If you want to hear a logical answer, you are not going to find it here. Whatever defies logic in our mind is not god's fault in the mind of a believer. It's simple as that.
Can not be more agree :) & such a golden words of you 'can not provoke them to think' :)
answers that I got were not related to my question at all but rather they were more concerned about my faith, I have to recite inna lillah :)
Re: God is controlling the birth and death?
Clearly you have an atheistic agenda and comprehension issues too therefore I am out of this thread. See you some other time in some other discussion , hopefully not a pointless religious discussion. So Long.
Sure, see you at some other place with a little hope that you might be little rational at bazar forum kind of stuff :)