God is controlling the birth and death?

[hopes]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@diwana

Answer is …God.

God is the creator.

He created people living in Pakistan, Japan and Zimbabway.

Hence whatever they do is ultimately his control. Is that a better answer?

You have now changed your question from final results to something called ‘suffering’ which is not the same as death or life situation.

OK Fine.

Everything is owned by God and when it is said, the circumstances are created by God, that means God has the knowledge of what is to happen and what is supposed to be the end result of any action by his creations.

He gave some freedom of choice to his creation.

He wants you to act good based on your abilities and where you are unable to do something, you are not liable.

Coming to the point, when someone makes bad choice or good choice, even though the person is making a free decision and …even though God is the one who created the brain and made the person think in certan way, …God is NOT RESPONSIBLE if the person knowingly did something wrong.

You see, even though God does control the events, he is not responsible if the acts were chosen by people were wrong.

A crude example is:

You own a car.

You lend the car to someone with valid license to drive.

You are in control weather to give the car to someone or not.

Eventually the person did not obey the laws and gets hurt while driving.

**Who is responsble?

You or that person?

**

Dear brother, its useless to reply for your out of context comment, read it yourself and then decide is it or not, by the way we should stop here I guess because I don’t feel any useful idea will come out. your quote *Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-), *you didn’t impress me at all

[hopes]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@rizla86

You know what defies logic for me? The way you ‘smarter than thou’ athiests with an agenda think how everything, EVERYTHING just came about into existence from nothingness with a big bang. Rant on about your logic all you want :).

rizla by the way to whom you are talking to? who is atheist here?

[diwana]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@hopes

Dear brother, its useless to reply for your out of context comment, read it yourself and then decide is it or not, by the way we should stop here I guess because I don’t feel any useful idea will come out. your quote *Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-), *you didn’t impress me at all

There is nothing out of context in my post. I answered you directly. God. God is the one who created all scenarios and uses human mind along the way.

Have you heard… Jab GeedaR Ki Maut Aati Hai, Woh Shahar Ki Taraf Bhagtaa Hai? Just a ‘saying’ but it has a wisdom.

You just could not give the answer honestly. And gave up.

Do you think you are the only one who has brought these kind of questions my friend?

Where does my signature claim, I am supposed to impress you?

[psyah]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

Peace

My first time in this thread … I thought it quite interesting how some early conversations confused “average age” with “average life expectancy” - the average age of a population goes up and down with the respect to the generations that come and go … If there are at some point in time a large amount of children being born then as they grow older they will shift the average age upwards … especially if during the life other factors reduce the amount of children being born such as legislation … or birth control …

Statistics are quite tricky if they are not fully understood and people will end up using half baked data to support arguments that are not apparent. One such indication is that “average age” - it is different to “life expectancy” and when “life expectancy” is determined the assumption is that it is not based on lifestyle so much as it is based on ethnicity, blood types, genetics, etc … because many people travel throughout the world living in different places.

Average life expectancy has increased - i.e. the people who die these days are older than they used to be in the past. However this statistic is correct the world over.

Look at this chart … http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Life_Expectancy_2005-2010_UN_WPP_2006.PNG

the average life expectancies of these regions are so clearly divided it would be stupid for us to make the assumption of “technology” alone being a factor for the death rate of people …

Here we can see that it might be race related. That certain “races” tend to live longer than others … It also may be climate related … that certain regions are prone to “more natural disasters”, than other areas … it also may be due to “political risk” if you look at Iraq and Afghanistan they are much lower than their neighbouring regions for life expectancies …

Also, India is probably better equiped for resources than Pakistan however it’s people have a lower life expectancy than Pakistan … also look to Russia as well … it is clear that another factor is “lifestyle”. Another clear indication of this is Germany although it is the strongest economy in Europe the lifestyle of the average German demands lower longevity of life.

But are all these things outside or inside the domain of God … ???

In fact if you look at the health facilities angle there is a minor impact to it … the greater impacts seem to be wars and region - i.e. race and climate that far outweigh the reasons for life expectancy than medical facilities … and even if it is medicine it is within Divine purpose to have medicine and for us to discover it … A given medicine can be a cure and at the same time be a poison … to different people it is God who determines that some people are allergic to alcohol and hence die with sanitising equipment and others can be allergic to certain types of antibiotic … or have heart attacks from paracetamol/aspirin … it has been known …

The America phenomenon - now if we look at South America the life expectancies are quite high compared to the relative medical facilities they have and also USA and Canada are amongst the highest … other than these being fairly safe countries from war there is another factor that should be considered … and that can be to do with the genepool of Americans … Amongst the most mixed blood people in the world live in America and it could be that mixed races live longer … Now all of this can be dervied from statistical data but none of it is true until we test it … over time …

One thing is for sure if religion says that God Sustains us - and we understand this to mean every cell in our bodies being given permission to perform its function - then it stands for reason that God establishes patterns in people and He establishes unique traits in them too - whether those traits are by race or by being offered medicine due to being born in a certain country - the place of birth is ordained just as much as the time of death.

[diwana]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

Statistics is a tool to make a lot of people fool.

[goddamniamsoawesome]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@psyah

Peace

My first time in this thread … I thought it quite interesting how some early conversations confused “average age” with “average life expectancy” - the average age of a population goes up and down with the respect to the generations that come and go … If there are at some point in time a large amount of children being born then as they grow older they will shift the average age upwards … especially if during the life other factors reduce the amount of children being born such as legislation … or birth control …

I think it was a given the OP was referring to average life expectancy. Sure didn’t word it like that but I guess it was clear enough.

[goddamniamsoawesome]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@diwana

Statistics is a tool to make a lot of people fool.

You should probably lay off all that cough syrup. Its messing with your common sense.

[Purple_Titlee]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@psyah

Peace

It also may be climate related … that certain regions are prone to “more natural disasters”, than other areas … it also may be due to “political risk” if you look at Iraq and Afghanistan they are much lower than their neighbouring regions for life expectancies …

Also, India is probably better equiped for resources than Pakistan however it’s people have a lower life expectancy than Pakistan … also look to Russia as well … it is clear that another factor is “lifestyle”. Another clear indication of this is Germany although it is the strongest economy in Europe the lifestyle of the average German demands lower longevity of life.

Very well explained!

[diwana]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@goddamniamsoawesome

You should probably lay off all that cough syrup. Its messing with your common sense.

My earlier statement remains as it is.

Sipping on my cough syrup.

[Amoureux_de_la_vie]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@hopes

Well’ you did use the word of circumstances, in the current picture these circumstances can be factors which playful in determining the average age plus you did include that God is giving the idea and mean to move in circumstances. By the way will you please clarify me how the circumstances are created, if Pakistanis are suffering then this situation or these circumstances are created by God or us?

If He is the one who creates the circumstances then again all the wrong doings are justified, no person is responsible since it’s not really been done by him.

If on the other hand, human beings are the one who creates this atmosphere or circumstances, in some particular parts of the world they have improved their average lifetime and some other part they were not capable enough to do so and hence worsen their lifetime. Doesn’t it make more sense?

For your last sentences, if I can’t prove life and death of course you are not proving too, your points are also based upon faith not logic, ain’t they?

I think the problem lies in the definition of God that we’re using here. Like you just showed, it is inconsistent. But the problem isn’t with the entity of God, but the definition. You can describe God in a way that would get you to conclude that there is none while resolving all of these problems. You can also define it so that you have a reason to believe in a God while still resolving these problems.

It depends on what you’re inclined to do, and honestly, as long as you don’t make up twisted reasons to justify causing harm to people, it doesn’t matter which way you go.

[jaanaan]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@diwana

This is called plain use of logic to make it look like it is true.

God controls not only the life and death but the circumstances of life and death.

Here is the answer with another logic.

Can you prove by any means anyone who died at the age of 45 in Zimbabwe would really have survived beyond 45 if he had lived in Japan?

Please prove it. No assumptions.

Besides you are looking at average life. Does not mean everyone lives long in Japan.

why do the believers always have to resort to such tactics? why do they ask other people to disprove what they believe instead of bringing logical arguments for their own arguments?

[diwana]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

@jaanaan

why do the believers always have to resort to such tactics? why do they ask other people to disprove what they believe instead of bringing logical arguments for their own arguments?

Please forget about belevers or non-believers here.

Just observe that a claim was made about the difference in average ages of different areas and based on that God role was questioned.

The claim of average difference was placed on test and it was shown that this claim is not a proof tht God had no role in controlling lives of any individual. God does ‘control’ everyone’s life and death.

[kakaballi]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

Dwindling In Unbelief

[Black_Mamba]

Re: God is controlling the birth and death?

Hopes:

I see you. No doubt Allah controls everything but does Allah consider our own choices while controling our lives? I think yes, I think free will and Prayers play some part in this too otherwise:

Why is it haram to comit suicide? If Allah is making me take my life then why do I get the blame and has to burn in hell?
Why are contraceptives used? If we have no say in human birth, it does not make any sense, does it?
why couples go to doctors and pray, if they want children and have problems conceiving? Again, your efforts are prayers might be considered in these issues.
Why we pray for long lives of our relatives and friends?

I dont agree with people who called you atheist or non-believer. I am sorry to see that happening without any proof or logic.

A non-believer will think that he/she can change his/her day of death cuz s/he is in control
A believer on other hand may also think that s/he can change day of death by praying to Allah.