Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
^ This happens and gets reported in Punjab and Sindh but it is worst in NWFP my Pashtoon friend.. there they kill and dont report cuz there's no media there - nobody would have read a newspaper :D In Punjab and Sindh it happens but it is rare these days..
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Actually, my Punjabi friend, reason it is rare in NWFP, is that you would get shot if you tried that sort of hanky panky. Check the Frontier Post circulation for newspaper readership.
The report says that more than 473 incidents of honour killing were reported from Sindh, 337 from Punjab, 129 from Balochistan and 76 from NWFP during 2005. Those killed included 563 married women, 75 unmarried women, 373 men and six children.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C04%5C28%5Cstory_28-4-2006_pg12_3
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
^ My Pashtoon friend, it is more in NWFP but doesnt get reported cuz reporters dont have access to entire NWFP- they can get to only certain places and I guess these pashtoons must be hiding the news cuz of pride of their jaahil tribes. Tell me who is living in 7th century- Punajbis or Pashtoons.. who obeys these Islamic jirgas more? Pashtoons or Punjabis
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
No it's not more in the NWFP. You should read the HRCP report - if you can read at all. The HRCP is an independent commission in Pakistan, the lack of reporting as you say applies equally to the whole of Pakistan - You're grasping at straws in a desperate attempt to find an excuse to explain the lack of this crime in the NWFP (though it does occur).
"Pashtoons" have a great history and many move into the major cities and work there, simply because the development occurs in these major cities. A lot of Pashtoons are more educated and have better jobs than many Punjabis in these locations.
I dont believe you are Punjabi or Pakistani as a matter of fact. Why do I think this? Because anyone would know that Punjab does have Islamic councils, like NWFP. In Punjab they are called Panchyat, in NWFP, they are called Jirgas. Look it up and learn something, my Indian friend.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
"Pashtoons" have a great history and many move into the major cities and work there, simply because the development occurs in these major cities. A lot of Pashtoons are more educated and have better jobs than many Punjabis in these locations.
Why do these "Pashtoons" go out of their homeland to seek jobs elsewhere- especially in the Punjabi bastion? If they are so hard-working and development friendly and have a great history of them proving the same, why not transform their tribal land into a land of oppurtunity? I take your word that the lot of Pashtoons are educated and read and write- what surprises me is the fact that as an educated Pashtoon you don't know Pakistani laws don't exist in many areas of NWFP. Had they existed, they could have easily nabbed OBL. Why development is happening in major cities outside Pushtoonland? And as far as Pashtoons are more educated and have better jobs than Punjabis? a very few do.. yes. but we allowed them to move up the ladder to make them feel happy about being part of Pakistan
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
You’re not even educated enough to know that Panchyats are present in Punjab, these are the same as Jirgas - yet you accuse other people of being uneducated. There’s a laugh 
Reason is simple. Pakistan is one single country. Pakistan is a poor country, so can only develop one or two cities. Development is centred around these areas, and the whole of Pakistan has access to it. The oppotunities in other words are created there for the whole of Pakistan. Soon Gwadar in Balochistan will be overrun by Punjabis as the port opens and residential complexes. Where’s your point? Pakistan is one nation, not discriminatory, we dont have caste systems that you might be used to.
As I expected you would not be able to follow me. Let me try and explain this so you understand. In NWFP, governments do no money putting into development because moneys is little, yaaar, governments only putting money into one or two cities for the all of Pakistanis yaar Bud Bud.
Also, when I said that NWFP has a great history, I’m referring to its past conquests, resistance, and civilizations (Gandhara etc), something that is widely ackknowledged.
Another factually incorrect statement. Pakistani laws exist in all regions of the NWFP, except for FATA, a relic of British rule. You clearly know nothing of Pakistan or have your head buried in the sand or some other odeous orifice.
Development is happening inside of NWFP, development is now happening inside of Balochistan. It forms part of trickle down. An example of such development is the growth of urban centres all over the NWFP in recent years, provided for by the ADB.
http://www.adb.org/Documents/Profiles/LOAN/27182013.ASP
Actually this isnt true. A lot of the rulers of Pakistan have been Pashtoon. Ayub Khan was a popular one. It was he that allowed others to move up the ladder.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Abey I know difference between Panchayats and Jirgas- I use them interchangeably.. gotcha? Your quam will always remain jaahil- whether you remain in your pind or migrate to the west… In the west, you just give bad name to fellow Pakistanis. I know about the plans to make Gwadar port commercial and happy.. why Punjabis will be in majority there in Balochistan too very soon.. cuz we are in majority in entire Pak..! Talk about great hostory of NWFP.. yeah right! killings and fightings over little things like women, pride.. rt? Arrey yaar, we did ehsan on Pashtoons by allowing them to be with us.. my mom’f family is from Mianwali(Niazi) and niazis are in large no. in Mianwali. why? cuz we Punjabis are very generous and known to be large-hearted. This thread is not about bashing Pashtoons… I am just saying that NWFP and Pashtoons have to come a long way to become civilized like Punjabis and leave tribal practices for good 
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Well there is more paganistic jahalat, which facilitates the open and quite fervent practice of shirk such as grave-worshipping et al, in Sindh and Punjab. This profound ignorance is further manifested in this barbaric and backward treatment of women, which is quite reminiscent of the ways and practices of pagan natives and ancestors of the current populace of the of said areas...
Plus the conservative islamic ethos of the Frontier and Balochistan prevents such blatanly unislamic practices from rearing its ugly head in the region west of the Indus...
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
You obviously didnt know the difference between Panchyat and Jirga my Bhindi wearing friend, else you would not have said "who obeys these Islamic jirgas more? Pashtoons or Punjabis". An example of a Punjabi Panchyat in action "Similarly, Zahid Mahmood Akhtar, accused of blasphemy, was acquitted on the same grounds five years ago. However, he was stoned to death on July 6, 2002 after a panchayat (a group of **honourable :D* Punjabi citizens or decision-makers) in his village, Chak Jhumra, decreed that he should be killed. The government immediately arrested around 30 members of the panchayat." *
Most people in the West associate the saffron-clad, Bhindi wearing Punjabis as being Pakistani / Indian, and is a source of constant ridicule to Pakistanis and Indians with the BUD BUDDING DING DING impersonations that Western folk do. Most people do not have a stereotype of the Pashtun in the West, only of the Saffron clad beauts like yourself. :D
Punjabis might be the majority in Pakistan, but this is a backward mentality, since it strains the economy by having too many offspring. This rabbit like mentality is found in places in Africa and other developing countries of the world.
Actually, Pashtoons are more generous than Punjabis, as is widely acknowledged by the world when they talk of the hospitality of Pashtuns. Also, the generosity of the Pashtuns is demonstrated no more so than the way they allow the places in Punjab and Sindh to be developed at first, and then their own places to be developed. True generosity :)
And then we come to the history of the Pashtuns versus the Punjabis. Punjabi history can be summarized as follows. Punjabis came from somewhere in central Asia mixed in with the Dravidians, and then ruled one or two areas in the subcontinent, were constantly overrrun and battered for centuries, before the Mughals came, battered them into submission once more, and then by the time the British came, they were so battered, they (Rajput Punjabis) made deals with the British to let them rule them and be slaves for the British. Pashtun history cannot be summarized so easily because of it's length, but basically, Pashtuns came from somewhere further North, were probably descendants of the Eastern Scythians or Tocharians, great warriors, and fighters renowned for their skill as riders, set up a Kushan Empire with Gandhara as its centre, fought against the British to the extent that they were unconquerable, and made the British give them semi autonomy as they could not be defeated, the British coming out with the words "You're white people - sons of Alexander - and not like common, black Mohammedans” ‘The Man Who Would Be King’ (1891) addresses the Pathans. Weighing a Pathan against an Englishman for their valour in ‘The Ballad of East and West’, Kipling exclaims:
“Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet, *
*Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat; *
*But there is neither East nor West, Border nor Breed, nor Birth, *
*When two strong men stand face to face, *
*Though they come from the ends of the earth!'
Tribal practices are more rigidly held onto in Punjab than in other areas of Pakistan. The most obvious ones are female feticide as well as grave worshipping, saffron cladding, and wearing your bhindis.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
I am so sick to my stomach that i cant even say a single world...
I feel helpless for all these women sometimes... *sigh....
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
I havent met anyone mistaking me for an Indian.. I have very Punjabi look mashallah :). In the west, they know very well that Punjabis are very hard-working and dont want any trouble. How about Pak Army Can you give source of the Panchayat crime you mentioned, my jaahil tribal pashtoon friend?
Why would Pashtoons come to Punjab to take refuge? cuz life is better in Punjab compared to the maulanas fighting over little things in Pushoonistan and calling them proud afghans 
When in Lahore, me and my punjabi buddies would go to Data durbar and touch, kiss, foddle, spank lot of Pathani women and Pathans would be mute spectators.. just asking us to leave their womenfolk… haha. I take it that was cuz of the generosity of Pathans you are talking about :D. Punjabis are somewhere in Central Asia? Gawd.. gimme a break.. even a kid would know that Punjabis are from Punjab!
Talk of Rajput Punjabis surrendering to British.. What about Taliban who ran away like rats within days of arrival of american forces, dude? they coudnt even fight them for a day.. what a pity.. All they knew was to show their manliness to their burqa-clad poor women.. Yeah, you are the man when you can’t fight punjabis in punjab 
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
i hate people sometimes, i mean how can you as a father kill your own daughter. :no:
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Did you know that most people in present day Punjab are from India - during Partition most of the Bhindian Punjabi Muslims moved into Paksitani Punjab, and so you would be very much identifiable as Indian. Perhaps you colour your Bhindi green instead of red, and throw people off the mark.
In the West, they know most immigrants dont want any trouble, and come here to work. Pashtuns in the West generally tend to be those who come over as professionals, the same cannot be said of some others.
You dont believe me that your beloved Punjabi Panchyat issued orders for the stoning? Bud bud, alright, I will provide you a reference.
http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2002/286/
Pushtoons dont go to Punjab in significant quantities. Just businessmen, trading etc. Usually Pushtoons go abroad for work as professionals. However, even in Punjab, Pushtoons dominate in many sectors
Pashtuns in Pakistan are concentrated in the North West Frontier Province and the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, both located in the extreme northwest of Pakistan and on the border with Afghanistan (GROUPCON = 3). A significant number of Pashtuns are also in Baluchistan, where they dominate the urban merchant class, and in Punjab.
http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/inscr/mar/assessment.asp?groupId=77005
There is actually more religious fighting in Punjab than in NWFP. This is widely acknowledged by all neutral news sources on the subject. Some does occur in the NWFP, but not as much as in Punjab.
***Most sectarian violence in Pakistan takes place in the province of Punjab and the country’s commercial capital, Karachi, in Sindh province. ***
***http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3045122.stm ***
Well, it’s a well known fact that Punjabi men are ugly, so this comes as no surprise. The beautifying symbol of your Bhindis doesnt help you much Funnily enough, now you mention it, there’s many Punjabi looking folk that claim they’re Pathan, no doubts, you would be braving yourself in front of such 14 year old Pathan wannabee Punjabis 
. I would suggest you ask yourself why so many Punjabis claim to be Pathan, and if you’re the example, I can see why!
No no, genius. Before that.
The Pathans arent fighting. All you see are fringe elements, the odd Afghan fighting with the odd Arab or Tajik. There’s little doubt that if it was the Punjabis being invaded, 100 million of them would have run off within half an hour of the announcement that a US F-16 was in the vicinity :biggthumb
The same would apply to you going to the frontier. The simple calculation is that 10 Punjabis are needed to fight 1 Pathan. It’s a well known fact that 1 Pathan can knock seven shades of pink out of a Punjabi’s Bhindi.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Instead of focusing on the issue at hand which required our utmost attention and respect, this thread is being used for racial slurs, settling personal scores, trying to prove who's a bigger moron. No wonder we still live in the dark ages when it comes to issues such as honor.
Those involved in killing of innocent girls in the name of honor may have their honor stuck up their backside where the sun does not shine, no wonder they get so excited whenever fingered.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Yup, that was sad. Let's hope they find those responsible and punish them. Do you have anything more to add?
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
if those responsible cud be arrested and given punishment and rejected by society we wud not be having this discussion. No, I cannot and do not wish to add anything new here, this kind of inhumaninjustice requires a simple No.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Three people have been arrested.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Amazing man! just shows how ungrateful pathans can be.. we gave you food and shelter and you are the same guys who backstab us, the Punjabis. Most of the Punjabis moved from E. Punjab, India? Thats a joke… this simply shows you dont know the two-nation theory.. minorities from a province had to leave for the other side.. which means muslim punjabis who were in minority in East Punjab moved to west Punjab and vice versa. I think you are talking about Hindko-speaking Punjabis who claim they are Pathans.. thats foolish of them.. like French-Canadian who cliam they are French..
Most of the sectarian violence in Punjab is due to Afghans.. after soviets left Afghanistan these Mujahideens were left out of work.. Instead of dying of hunger, they moved east to wage the most ridiculuous of all fights- sectarian violence.. these madarssas had no motive except to make one sect kill the other… remember sectarian violence started in 1980s when Zia was ruling.. Zia used mullahs to his advantage.. appeasing them so that they feel great and dont shout over his anti-Islamic ways.. mullahs tied with ex-Afghan warlords to start what became one of the most bloodiest series of violence…
Punjabis are cowards? Where did you get that from? :mad: One Pathan for 10 Punjabis? Are you on crack or some Afghan grown-marijuana? Pathans look thin, fragile, hungry.. I go to Mianwali to my mom’s place and see my cousins- they look so weak and desperate that I give them watches, walkman, cash- whatever I can.. and then they are niazis.. better of the Pathans.. Poor afghans.. always will accept you give them and start calling you bhaijaan only to ditch you later.. If we Punjabis are coward who won 4 wars against India for Pakistan.. and I am sure you know army is 90% Punjabi..
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
Keep your Bhindi on you twit! Listen you saffron clad buffoon, noone owes your hemerhoidally laced, fistulated anus a nickel. Just remember the only thing you own are your saffron belongings and gourmless smile. 
5.3 million Muslims moved from India to West Punjab in Pakistan, 3.4 million Hindus and Sikhs moved from Pakistan to East Punjab in India. The population of Punjab at the time of Partition was about 18 million. So this makes nearly 1 in every 3 Punjabis of North Indian origin.
You also include the Seraikis as Punjabis, which they are most definitely not. They are more related to Baloch than Punjabis.
This is all wrong. The Mujahidden moved West after the Soviet invasion and members formed various factions such as Northern Alliance and Taliban. Sectarian violence is worst in Punjab, and the people that commit the violence are in all cases almost exclusively Punjabis. It is Punjabi groups that ar fighting each other, these are thought to be Sunni Sipah-I-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) and its Shi’a counterpart, Sipah-I-Mohammad Pakistan (SMP). Non Punjabis have very little to do with the sectarian violence in Punjab.
Look at the leaders of Pakistan. Zia was the worst ruler of Pakistan (he was incidentally a Punjabi), and he introduced the dreaded Hudood Ordinances and other radicalizing procedures, whereas Ayub Khan (a Pathan) was one of the best rulers of Pakistan who maintained a more secular approach (as envisioned by Jinnah to an extent) without any Hudood Ordinance etc.
Your cousins are Punjabis, that’s why 
The only Niazi I know surrendered in '71 
You forget, the only war Pakistan beat India in, was the '65 war, when a Pathan was leading the country. During this time the Pakistan military elite was mainly Pathan (40% Pathan - Punjabis were about 30% - considering Pathans formed only around 15% of the population and Punjabis about 70%, this is a disproportionate amount of Pathan servicemen who wiped the Indians in '65 - compare that with the Mush performance recently). Ayub Khan made the decisions, and the Pathans did the heavy work of beating back the Indians. Soon as Bhutto and Niazi took over Pakistan was having trouble against the Bhindians (a naturally weak Army). I suspect the only reason the Pak Army is able to fend off the Indian Army is because the Pathans that form the core of it are able to give the advantage to Pakistan.
Re: Girl shot 4 times survives honour killing
I’ve been following your guys thread (i.e.roadrunner and mulz) and have been laughing at many times and at some places feel my stomach churn! I think roadrunner was going well in the beginning (eg. Pakistan is one country where we all share the resources) till he started getting attacked personally by mulz who has a very panjabi-centric viewpoint on everything which borders on extreme and misdirected racism which should be geared towards the real dangers of our identity in as roadrunner put it Bhindi, Bollywood movies and Indian media. Also, just to make a point, not all Pukhtuns/Pushtuns are Afghani!! and there are more Pukhtuns/Pushtuns in Pakistan (>24 millions) then there are in all of Afghanistan (8 million); in fact populatn of Pushtuns in Afghanstan is <13 mill. While Panjabi’s are the majority in the country (about 45% or 55% if one includes the Seraiki who I think are genetically the best ex. of Pakistan being that they are a mix of Pushtun, Baluch, Sindhi and Panjabi!) The fastest rising group in the country and the ‘Spine’ of Pakistan is made up by the Pushtuns(15% and rising- expected to be 20% in a decade!) While the 50’s was considered a Mohajir-Panjabi nexus running the country, post 70’s and future will see a Pushtun-Panjabi nexus dominating the country) they are fast reaching positions in the civil service, armed forces, buracracy, business and arts; something they were deprived of in Afghanistan. Also, you mentioned that 90% of army is Panjabi, this is incorrect, Pushtuns are disproportionately higher in all the services of the armed forces (>30% for a pop. of 15%!) and our first female pilots are pushtun (mashallah). U(mulz) mention that you harass Pushtun women in Lahore, u not only insult Islam, but Pakistan too and the Pak Panjabis whom you claim to defend. Though on the flip side, I do believe that Panjabis have the biggest heart and are accepting more of people due to the mixed gene pool and fertility of the province which always acted as a social gathering place rather than a passing corridor. Panjabis share many genetic traits with Pushtuns, but with Balouch, Sindhis and Kashmiris also. Panjabis are also of mixed Scythian, Hun stock and Aryan . due to the ‘attractive’ pull of the fertile region many foreign peoples came as well from Central Asia, Iran, India, Afghanistan and even ‘Pukhtunkwa’ some on pleasant terms, others more forcibly! Also, I am no big fan of Zia who I think did much damage to our country(no major infrastructure -roads,schools, bridges , huge debts etc..in over a decade and mismangement of the Afghan war and refugee camps-one just needs to look at how Iran handle the same situation) but would like to point out that though he was Panjabi per se, he was also a Mohajir (who do not necessarily have strong ties to the land and make unpatriotic decisions); I personally think that Urdu was a bad choice(one of the most disastrous decision!) for Pakistan cuz it has failed to strenghthen our identity(rather it keeps us attached to colonial british India/bollywood bhindias saris etc..) and doesnt unify us strong enough; I wished the qaumi-zaban had been Farsi or even Arabic(they dont favour any indigenous group yet make us unique) which would have pulled us towards our previous history or towards our ideological inclinations because we all had to learn the language anyways since Urdu has no geographic origin to Pakistan(we could technically learn any language and make it Qaumi zaban); either way we would have had a stronger Identity by now! anyhow, even now, another option would be to localize our Urdu (call it Pak Urdu or Paki) which would be altered to include more Pushto, Balochi/sindhi, arabic and Gilgiti words with core modification to bring back in line with original farsi(dari) or at least into the western branch(Irano) of the Indo-European family tree this is my opinion to make us have a more stronger unifying qaumi zaban. I just wanted to share my opinion into your discussion and want to emphasize the need that as Pakistanis we need to focus on the greater goal of looking beyond petty issues and forging stronger bonds for we have to remember the preciousness of having ones own country (for example just look at the Chechnyans, Palestinians, Kashmiri or Sikhs for that matter!) and the fact that we are the first country in the world made in the name of Islam and that we scare the **** out of the western world cuz we have no oil yet are economically viable with the potential to become a power, when were sanctioned and bordering on debt, we can still pull together enough to make us stand proud as the worlds 7th and only Muslim nuclear power as well being one of a handful of countries producing its own fighter planes, where most Islamic countries are based on ethnic lines(exception of the Kurds) whereas we are truly multicultural and have survived close to 60 years with the interprovincial bonds growing stronger(on personnel lines at least). So we have much to be greatful for and to look forward to, your guyz discussion is conter productive and need to be synergized especially if one is think of the ‘Pushtun-Panjabi’ Nexus:) . A little about me, I belong to Faisalabad but work as a doctor in Quetta where most of my patients and best friends are Pushtun. I have also learned to speak Pukhto(za pukto wayalaysham) and am happy to say that my pushtun brothers have learned quite a bit of my faisalabadi panjabi too (again synergism!) Also, I have seen many intermarriages here b/w Panjabi and Pushtun (and vice-versa) but also with Afghan and Balochi, my brother is married to a Yusofzai(mardan) and female cousin married her batchmate from Parachinar (Mengal) and still a few others have married into Gilgit and Sindh. Their children are super smart and tough. Theyve taken the best from their respective Pakistani regions and are a marvel to watch as they grow up! I think we need to look at the greater picture and martial qualities that we all have to offer to the great nation of Pakistan. Hope I didnt offend anyone. Pakistan Zindabad:jhanda: