While raising a baby here in States we always hear remarks from ladies that its so easy to get a girl-maid in Pakistan and life is pretty easy back home.. though my baby boy is at least 95 percent less fussy than I was as a baby still there are moments when I wish we could had help.. those maids though small seem angel ..
I remember back home those maids seems integral part of raising babies.. some times 7-10 years old trying to hold steady babies that were too heavy for them to carry.. feeding them , cleaning and nurturing them.. loving them and in the process developing intimate bond.. I recall few times when grown some lady came to our place and looked loveingly and said oh I raised up you you have grown up so much.. I stare and think I dont recall … these girls give most of their children time acting as mothers to someone who will never care at all! These girls come from have-nots homes of vicious poverty cycles and start contributing even as kids.. are these angels sent to us or society is using them..
Good topic Degas. I've been to Pakistan recently and noticed that many of Harris' cousins were looked after by girl maids. I admit that sometimes if I've had a rubbish day at work and Harris is in a grumpy mood I do think it would be lovely to just have a maid that I could hand him over to and let her deal with it.
When i visited Islamabad last year, this was at the top of my mind. One of my Khalas has a young girl as a live-in servant (she is married actually, watta-satta type marriage). Anyways, tau she couldn’t have been more than 14 or 15. Poora ghaR ka kaam sambhaalti thi… and i mean, poora. Waking up at dawn, phiR helping the cook prepare naashta, laundry, ironing, cleaning the whole house top to bottom, etc. Her and her husband had never owned a tv before, so when the house used to be khaali, my Khalu used to let them watch tv in the lounge area. She would be so happy…flicking the channels on the remote. My Ammi tells me, growing up, they always had maid servants looking after all the kids - and you are right, years later she would meet someone who had been her ‘bua’ (i don’t know how to translate that into English?). And the bua would be like, ‘Tum itni si thi jab mainay tumhara dekh baal shroo kia tha.’ In some cases, the bond between the child and bua becomes extremely close.
um sorry for rambling. Anyways - extremely interesting topic :k:
This constitutes Child Labor and all those who employ young girls at this age are CRIMINALS of society.
No wonder Pakistan is where it is. Instead of helping out these young children by providing basic education, we sit on our lazy butt and make them do ALL the house chores.
This epidemic is very prevelant in Pakistani soicety and anybody who has a couple of takkas employs extremely cheap child labor.
This now reminds me of a thread in the Culture Forum some time back, in which individuals accused me of being anti-Pakistani - "Servants in Pakistan" or something like that i called it.
Anyways, i completely agree...they should be offered an opportunity to have an education. In many cases, particularly for young girls, they may be working as a means of supplementing their family's income. So alongwith their studies, they need to be presented with a financial alternative to working (that would encourage their parents to be less disapproving of their desire to study) - maybe some sort of craft apprenticeship. Or i heard about some type of school somewhere in Africa (sorry, not certain precisely which country) that pays parents to send their young children to school. For every daughter that the parent sends, they receive a certain amount of money... a programme like that might actually work, i think, in Pakistan, IF properly implemented.
Nadia, I opened a similar thread … and I got a similar response.
I agree with you Funguy. It does constitute child labour. Then again, we have to try and think of it from their point of view (meaning the children). They just want to make money half the time to feed their family. The whole situation is crap. The government should make education free and get these children into school so that they have an opportunity to make something of their lives. At the same time, parents need other opportunities to make money rather than sending off their kids to become someone’s nanny/maid.
There is no simple solution. Unfortunately, this is common in pretty much all of Asia including Singapore, China and Hong Kong. I know women’s activist groups and human rights groups have pretty much got it banned in Hong Kong but it still happens. They were treated horrendously … and I know it is not always the case as some families do provide shelter, money, food, clothing and kindness to the girls … but there are also families that abuse them … particularly sexual abuse.
There is a simple solution. Make child labor illegal and child education compulsory. Nobody is gonna die for lack of income of a 12 year old. In extreme situations, government should provide food-relief coupons. Basic medical treatment is almost free (not of great standard, but it is free).
I know a few very poor families would suffer tremendously but majority of these children will benefit in the long run. Maybe it's worth it.
Plus the medium and upper class need to get off their big lazy butts and do some of the house-chores.
That would mean the government and police would have to do their job and really IMPLEMENT the law if child labour is made illegal as well as citizens respecting this law and accepting to do their own housework. Can you see that happening?
But, the laws should be in place, regardless. This would give legal protection to those directly affected - the children. They can have their illegal employers prosecuted, even at a later stage in the game when they are all grown up.
But to just sit and see attitude by the govt won't help. They have to make the laws and implement as much as possible. Something is better than nothing.
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*Originally posted by funguy: *
There is a simple solution. Make child labor illegal and child education compulsory. In extreme situations, government should provide food-relief coupons.
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Simple, may be. But to make child education compulsory, you need to establish public schools which can provide free education to all the children in the country. With the population explosion in Pak (3+% increase each year), and a yawning eternal budget crisis, where are the resources to implement such noble ideals? If, for a change, the people in Pakistan, start paying their due share of taxes, then yes, this may be possible. Until then, such lofty claims are better suited to theoretical disussions only.
Anyway, coming back to the topic... personally I feel its much better to have a full-time home-maker mother, atleast until the kids are at school. I think a mother is in the best position to help the baby with the essential character-traits which he or she is constantly gaining before he or she even starts pre-school. Utilizing the services of a maid (whether girl or woman) should only be a last resort, e.g. if mother is seriously ill. To hire them, just for the sake of relaxing and chatting away with friends, which is typically how most women utilize them in Pakistan, is really a shame. It also may result in children having less connection with their parents, once the kids grow up.
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*Originally posted by funguy: *
Child labor is gunnah.
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Indeed it is. I feel sick whenever I see childeren doing this. I remember everytime I went to the village with my Dad, some idiot relative would come and ask my dad to bring a good 'Naukar' for them. Most of the times these 'Naukars' were from poor families who couldnt even afford 'Do Waqt Ki Roti' .
The place where I come from is a Tribal (but Industrial) area and the tribal people are very poor as well, They often come to our houses and literally beg us to keep one of their kids as servants, these resident child maids or servants are employed for ' Do/Teen Waqt Ki Roti', Clothes and Rs. 200-2000 per months(which is given to their parents periodically). Most of the families prefer girl childs because they can be controlled easily. Most of these resident maids are usually very young about 7-8 years when they are hired (or cruelly sent by their parents), they work until they are 13-15 and after that they are sent back to their parents ( I am sure you know the reason).
But what is the Solution ?? Is it really that simple as you mentioned ?? I dont think so. First, If we dont keep them, someone else will do.
What happens If we make a law against it ?? Well these people will die of Hunger. It's the government which has to take the initiative, which has to make sure these kids get a decent life.
I have seen my relative in Lahore having small childern as their Nuker. They would call him “chooto”, the girl “chooti”. They would work around the house, doing all kind of work and then they were not treated very well from that family. Like slave kind of threatmeant. It was allways a pain the head kind of story, the stepmother (who did nothing)ran away, the father, the driver went to search for the wife, left the childern at their mercy.
All this headache, I would not want it if I am living in Pakistan. I would try to do my work by myself and If I do need or want a servent, I would take an elderly lady for that purpose and also pay her good for her services and treat her kindly.
Why do we forget our islamic ways of dealing the servents, there you are praying 5 x namaz, wearing hijab, but don’t leave any opportunity out the humilate the servent kids.
Servants on the whole is a problem that every third world country faces.. and we can debate about their working hours, compensation etc but they are doing a job but more serious issue is with small kids.. and even more painful is that this vicious cycle is keep on repeating with every generation and is inbred in their mind.. we are actually stealing chidhood from somebody..
don't lose sight of the actual circumstances on ground.. the little girls i know who take care of my cousin's kids back home are from extremely poor families, all in general have 5+ siblings.. chances are that they don't even get three decent meals a day let alone an education.
At my Khala's place these girls get fed, clothed and if they show the inclination get taught the qaida or other basics and get a sheltered environment away from all the abuse and neglect. They may end up becoming a better person than they would if they were left alone for the day when the Government can guarantee free education AND subsistence for all.
Yes it's exploitation but i wouldnt' call it child labor.
Not only we need schools for these 'children', we also need welfare nets, so that the poor parents and the children have access to basic shelter, food and medicines. All that needs money. By opting to be maid-servants, these people are helping themselves, as they don't think the government can ever take the lead to resolve all the problems of over-population. Talk is actually very cheap.
Talk is cheap, no doubt but it is important that we do talk. Had we been talking since 1947, the problem may have been solved by now.
ANd I don't give a rat's ass whose phuppi and khala are feeding their child servants very well. What the children need at single digit age is education, not paraathay and halwa.
1) u can get nanny's, maids anywhere if you can afford it.
2) its easier to afford it in Pakistan because they get paid squat
3) child labour is a huge issue
4) children work because they have to, not because they want to. a more comprehensive plan is needed.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
don't lose sight of the actual circumstances on ground.. the little girls i know who take care of my cousin's kids back home are from extremely poor families, all in general have 5+ siblings.. chances are that they don't even get three decent meals a day let alone an education.
At my Khala's place these girls get fed, clothed and if they show the inclination get taught the qaida or other basics and get a sheltered environment away from all the abuse and neglect. They may end up becoming a better person than they would if they were left alone for the day when the Government can guarantee free education AND subsistence for all.
Yes it's exploitation but i wouldnt' call it child labor.
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but sadly their kids repeat the same cycle.. giving them food and shelter we take a lot from them.. and in cases a proud symbol status! small girls carrying babies and taking care of them away from their siblings and family - when they themselves are kids is a constant reminder that this is their fate.. no chance to get out of this mess. We are proud of our achievement since these kids (human beings) would rather be in worse condition than this life.. and when we come to west later we ae upset and say we never took a glass of water back home.. life is so easy back home since we gave shelter to some small kids!
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*Originally posted by funguy: *
Talk is cheap, no doubt but it is important that we do talk. Had we been talking since 1947, the problem may have been solved by now.
ANd I don't give a rat's ass whose phuppi and khala are feeding their child servants very well. What the children need at single digit age is education, not paraathay and halwa.
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Yes I agree by taking child maids you are encouraging this kind of behaviour. Just because my khala is going it, so will I and its all so hip, high class, posh bla bla... we all know that child labour is very cheap, kids will do anything you want them to do and they will not question you in anyway.
I am NOT against the idea of maids, but I am very aginst the idea of child servants.
Poor childern work because they are not given any chance of education, we need to start on us first, if we stop taking child labour then the poor people will have to sent their kids to schools, as no one will employ them.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
1) u can get nanny's, maids anywhere if you can afford it.
2) its easier to afford it in Pakistan because they get paid squat
3) child labour is a huge issue
4) children work because they have to, not because they want to. a more comprehensive plan is needed.
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Yes but can u get a small girl here in west to keep ur kids? Can we start something at our homes rather than waiting for some govt miracle.. can we do some home chores by ourself and give some hundred ruppess to family as a help and keeping small kids where they belong - their homes.
Extremely interesting topic, Degas.