Ghulam Mirza was for sikhs?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Very interesting reading at:
http://www.alislam.org/books/invitation/arg4.html#7
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One religious group seems to have escaped Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s vital and irresistible approach to the religions of the world. This group is the Sikhs. The Founder of the Sikhs, Guru Nanak, came long after the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and the blessings of God!. However, even the Sikh Holy Book contains the prophecy about a messenger in the latter days. It is clearly written in the Sikh cords that the Promised Reformer will appear in Batala (Batala is the Tehsil in which the village of Qadian is situated); the Sikh prophecy, therefore, has been literally fulfilled in the person of Hazrat Mirza Sahib.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

2

Sikhism doesn't believe in Prophethood. The Sikhs call their spiritual leaders Gurus, which means teacher. Guru Granth Sahib is Sikhs last Guru. Prophethood is a middle eastern phenomena..none of the eastern religions believe in prophethood. Eastern sagas are trying to reach and find God, none of them claim they have seen or talked to God.

What u have posted is hillarious.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 07, 2001).]

3

What is the use telling this to Paki Dummies

4

Rani ji,

I wont argue with you as you must know more about your religion than I.

I am here to correct this statement
"Eastern sagas are trying to reach and find God, none of them claim they have seen or talked to God."

  1. No one has "SEEN" Allah those who tried to, well they are now nothing(And they trnd into this even before allah revealed 1/1000000 of himself!!

2.If you reach and try to find god. Why hasn't anyone done that yet? And if they have done found him(which is absured as it seems god cant find you and help you instead you have to find god and then ask for a favour)that means they also saw and talked to god right?

3.If you claim to have "we have never seen or talked to him" why all those blue guys?

5

**
Changez,

It would be nice to post full pargraph rather then half because it will confuse people. here is the full text.

Guru Nanak, Founder of the Sikhs
**
One religious group seems to have escaped Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s vital and irresistible approach to the religions of the world. This group is the Sikhs. The Founder of the Sikhs, Guru Nanak, came long after the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and the blessings of God!. However, even the Sikh Holy Book contains the prophecy about a messenger in the latter days. It is clearly written in the Sikh cords that the Promised Reformer will appear in Batala (Batala is the Tehsil in which the village of Qadian is situated); the Sikh prophecy, therefore, has been literally fulfilled in the person of Hazrat Mirza Sahib. The difficulty which the Sikh religion raises is hat the Holy Prophet (on whom be peace and the blessings of God) was Khatam al-Nabiyyin, the Seal of the Prophets, the source and sanction of all prophets. How could a religious group, even one as small as the Sikhs, arise after the Holy Prophet (peace be on him)? Hazrat Mirza Sahib received special guidance from God ill dealing With the Sikh religion. He saw in a vision that Guru Nanak (the mercy of God be on him) was not the founder of any religion. He was a follower of Islam and a true Muslim.
Hazrat Mirza Sahib started investigating. He found that the Granth Sahib, the Sikh scripture, which is a collection of sermons and speeches by Bawa Guru Nanak (the mercy of God be on him), contains exhortations for the five daily prayers, the annual fasts, Zakat, and the Haj. Those who fail to observe these fundamental religious duties are severely warned. From other Sikh books it appears that Bawa Sahib was wont to live in the company of Muslim saints. He visited the tombs of Muslim saints and there spent his time in meditation. He joined them in congregational prayers. He went to the Hedjaz for Hajj, and visited Baghdad and the other holy places of Islam. The most important discovery, however, was a cloak (Choler) which the Sikhs guard and adore as a relic. On this cloak are written chapters and verses of the Holy Quran - chapter 112, for instance, the famous verse of the ‘Throne’, and the verse ‘Surely the true religion with Allah is Islam’ (3:20). The Kalima of Islam, ‘There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet,’ is written in a bold hand. As the Sikh devotees did not know Arabic, they revered these writings as divine mysteries. They did not realize that the writings were a declaration of Islam by Bawa Sahib. By arguments based on the Sikh books and connected with the relics held sacred by them, Hazrat Mirza Sahib began to tell the Sikh community that their great founder was a Muslim. The impact on the Sikh community was very real. They already show a tendency to be sympathetic to Islam, and as the true meaning of these discoveries dawns upon them they will realize that they have only strayed from the faith of their founder. The faith of the early Sikhs was Islam. They gradually dissociated themselves from it because of political controversies. These controversies, as historical research tends to prove, were due to Hindus, not Muslims. They have made the relations between Sikhs and Muslims very bitter. But the Sikhs are a brave people. One can hope that they will put truth above politics, forget the past, and join Islam. When they do so, the air will resound with the cry Sat Sri Akal (‘Hail, the One True God’). The reformer promised ill their scripture has appeared according to the promise ill the Tahsil of Batala. It is up to them to accept and join him and join the effort he has initiated on behalf of Islam

http://www.alislam.org/books/invitation/arg4.html#7

“Away from Eyes…Close to Heart”

[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 07, 2001).]

6

[quote]
Originally posted by honestali:
What is the use telling this to Paki Dummies
[/quote]

yeah, thats my point as well for Rani, tell this to honestali type of dummies so they may learn something.

anyway, Rani thanks for informing, but as Insaaniat already posted a detailed paragraph, it tells 'origin' of Sikhism. would you want to talk about its origin (only if you KNOW about it) ??? I don't have any knowledge about sikhism.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

7

[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
*Rani ji,
you must know more about your religion than I.
*
[/quote]

I wouldnt be sure about this. At least she dsoesn't show respect for Guru Nanak.
Proof: Read her postings and you'll find out that she has no respect for Islam.
Although Guru Nanak (great personality) was a MUSLIM!

"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"

8

Insaaniyat...Daily part of the Sikh prayers is "Guru manao Granth" our Guru is Granth, all Sikhs repeat that everyday in Gurdawara.

It is absolutely aganist Sikhism to believe in Prophethood. Sikhism believes in teachers. You guys are so misguided u have no understanding of mystic religions. Mystic religion don't believe that God talked to anybody they see God in his creation. Mystic religions outline good values and leave the decisions to incorporate into your lives upto individuals.

Ali_r ...u are so misguided Guru Nanak was born of Hindu parents and has many places critized meaningless muslim and Hindu rituals. His message is 180 degree diff than that of Islam. Sikhism believes in reincaranation and Karma, there is no concept of judgement day or heaven and hell as in Islam and doesn't believe in active conversion.
Sikhism believes there are many paths to one God an no path is superior or inferior therefore nobody is Kaffir or believers..it really doesn't matter which religion an individual follows as long as he performs good karma.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 07, 2001).]

9

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
You guys are so misguided (edited September 07, 2001).]
[/quote]

We seem to think the same about you guys.

10

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** yeah, thats my point as well for Rani, tell this to honestali type of dummies so they may learn something.

anyway, Rani thanks for informing, but as Insaaniat already posted a detailed paragraph, it tells 'origin' of Sikhism. would you want to talk about its origin (only if you KNOW about it) ??? I don't have any knowledge about sikhism.

**
[/quote]

What Insaaniat has posted is bunch of made up crap..it has no substance, it is not derived from Guru Granth Sahib. Somebody seems to have a very wild imagination and made up a story.

11

[quote]
Originally posted by mbmagsi:
** We seem to think the same about you guys.**
[/quote]

We intrepret the verses u post from Koran and watch first hand your treatment of non-muslims.

Please post verses from Guru Granth Sahib to substantiate your claims..meaningless and baseless stories are waste of time.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 07, 2001).]

12

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Rani:
Prophethood is a middle eastern phenomena..none of the eastern religions believe in prophethood.

Christians and Jews believe in prophets as well. Christianity and judaism were there before Islam. Classifying prophethood as a mideastern phenomenon as u put it, is incorrect.
The concept is present in all religions of the world, in different forms. Some religions call their leaders as prophets. Others call them gurus, yet others call them gods. All these religious figures are given an upscale status because of the idea that they have a divine connection.

13

Rani,

You mentioned that Sikhism believes in 'teachers' but Islam talks about 'prophets'.

A per the Islamic philosophy, Prophets are human beings who are apointed by God, to preach in this world, the message of Peace. They are only warners who 'teach' the revelations of God ...

Please explain what are the duties of 'teachers' in Sikhism?

14

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Akif:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Rani:
Prophethood is a middle eastern phenomena..none of the eastern religions believe in prophethood.

Christians and Jews believe in prophets as well. Christianity and judaism were there before Islam. Classifying prophethood as a mideastern phenomenon as u put it, is incorrect.

Both of them are middle eastern religions.

*The concept is present in all religions of the world, in different forms. Some religions call their leaders as prophets. Others call them gurus, yet others call them gods. All these religious figures are given an upscale status because of the idea that they have a divine connection. *

Nope none of the eastern religious leader claim they are messenger of God they call themselves Gurus or teachers..Prophethood son of God or messanger of special or only person on the earth God talks only believed by semitic religions (middle eastern. Mystic religions (eastern religion) don't believe in Prophethood. Buddha, Guru Nanak were all teachers helping us to lead meaningful lives they were not Prophets.

15

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
Both of them are middle eastern religions.
**
[/quote]

If you go into specific labeling, the ones you are labeling as 'middle eastern religions' are called 'western religions'

The Mystical religions that you mentioned are labeled as 'Eastern Religions'

16

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
** We intrepret the verses u post from Koran and watch first hand your treatment of non-muslims.

Please post verses from Guru Granth Sahib to substantiate your claims..meaningless and baseless stories are waste of time.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 07, 2001).]**
[/quote]

I am talking about all that time you come up with I don't know what kind of statements about Muslim people. You don't seem to understand the difference between Islam and Muslim.

Below are the statements used by yourself:

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*Why did they have to fight against "non-believers". Why muslims call people of other faiths non-believers? *
[/quote]

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*Well..because of that slavery lots of Hindus like yourself became muslims. *
[/quote]

Let me know if you want more of the statement for which you didn't have any evidence.

17

Rani,

So bottom line is that what Mirza Qadianis speaks of is wrong and totally fabricated stuff?

Discuss the topic put forth, not anything else. Make another thread if you want to discuss the sikhism and mystical religions.

"I am not playing with a full deck!"

18

Rani I have not looked at the Bala Sahib's Janam Sakhi myself, but the following is claimed in the monthly magazine 'Review of Religions'.
The Article is by Professor Abdul Jaleel

[quote]
The following passages are quoted from the third edition of Bala Sahib's Janam Sakhi, printed by the press, Anarkali, Lahore in the early part of this century.

On page 134 of Janam Sakhi, we read, The Quran is divided into thirty sections, proclaim thou, this Quran in the four comers of this world. Declare the glory of one name only for none other is an associate with me. Nanak proclaims the word of God that came to him, thou hast been granted the rank of Sheikh, so thou shouldst abolish the worship of gods and goddesses and the old Hindu idol - temples.

The fundamental article of the Islamic faith, the Kalima, has been given the greatest stress in Janam Sakhi. A few Shaloks (verses) from this Sakhi read:

I have repeated one Kalima, there is none other.
I have repeated one Kalima, there is none other.

Those who repeat the Kalima and are not devoid of the faith, shall not be burned on fire.

Repeat the Holy Kalima of the Prophet, it shall cleanse thee of all sins.

By repeating the Kalima, the punishment of this world, as well as the next is averted.

Who ever repeats the Kalima, how shall he be punished? the merit of repeating the Kalima is that a person is cleansed of his sins.

In Bala's Janam Sakhi, we also read that during his pilgrimage to Mecca, Baba Nanak met Qazi Rukn-ud-Din, the Imam and had long conversations with him. It is reported that Nanak said, 0: Rukn-ud-Din, it is written in the Book (i.e., the Quran) that those who drink wine or 'Bhang' shall be punished on the Day of Judgement.
[/quote]

Please comment on the above and also if you can tell me where can I find a copy of this Janam Saki?

19

Please comment on the above and also if you can tell me where can I find a copy of this Janam Saki?

Janam Saki are bunch fictional stories by various writers they are more like fairy tales with sometimes religious charcters. They have nothing to do with the religion. Reading of Janam Sakis is not allowed in any Gurudawara...teaching of all Gurus and various Bhagats are compiled in Guru Granth that is the only religious book Sikhs believe in.

I have no idea where u can get one..

20

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
**Rani,

So bottom line is that what Mirza Qadianis speaks of is wrong and totally fabricated stuff?

**
[/quote]

Yup...totally fabricated..