The whole believe system of living thing sounds a fairy tale to me.
[quote]
Originally posted by mbmagsi:
The whole believe system of living thing sounds a fairy tale to me.
[/quote]
I don't blame u..it would be foolish to think that u would have insight to understand value system that respects everybody and believes in universalism and euality of all man kind, regardless of who they are.
Thank you.
And yet again proven that Mirza Qadiani was a liar in this regard as well.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
“I am not playing with a full deck!”
God in Sikh religion.
GOD
The Gurus preached Sikh religion strictly as monotheistic- requiring belief in none other than One Supreme Being only. Sikhs belive that all religions belive in the same God by different name. Hence, it is not religion that will save a person but his devotion towards the Supreme Being. In other important issue in Sikhisim is the belive that God cannot take human form.
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**
It is absolutely aganist Sikhism to believe in Prophethood. Sikhism believes in teachers. You guys are so misguided u have no understanding of mystic religions. Mystic religion don't believe that God talked to anybody they see God in his creation. Mystic religions outline good values and leave the decisions to incorporate into your lives upto individuals.
Rani,
**
[/quote]
[quote]
He found that the Granth Sahib, the Sikh scripture, which is a collection of sermons and speeches by Bawa Guru Nanak (the mercy of God be on him), contains exhortations for the five daily prayers, the annual fasts, Zakat, and the Haj. Those who fail to observe these fundamental religious duties are severely warned. From other Sikh books it appears that Bawa Sahib was wont to live in the company of Muslim saints. He visited the tombs of Muslim saints and there spent his time in meditation. He joined them in congregational prayers. He went to the Hedjaz for Hajj, and visited Baghdad and the other holy places of Islam. The most important discovery, however, was a cloak (Choler) which the Sikhs guard and adore as a relic. On this cloak are written chapters and verses of the Holy Quran - chapter 112, for instance, the famous verse of the 'Throne', and the verse 'Surely the true religion with Allah is Islam' (3:20). The Kalima of Islam, 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet,' is written in a bold hand. As the Sikh devotees did not know Arabic, they revered these writings as divine mysteries. They did not realize that the writings were a declaration of Islam by Bawa Sahib. By arguments based on the Sikh books and connected with the relics held sacred by them, Hazrat Mirza Sahib began to tell the Sikh community that their great founder was a Muslim.
[/quote]
Please read text again, and please tell me what is significance of Quranic writings on his Cholak and what was the significance of **'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet” **in Guru’s life?.
Also I want to ask you is, HAVE YOU SEEN THE CHOLAK YOURSELF OR HEARD ABOUT IT? If so, I will invite you to pay visit to cholak and se for yourself.
"Away from Eyes......Close to Heart"
Basit, If you can READ please read the post above and especially the area I have marked bold.
There are many signs of truth of mirza sahib. If you like to fill this post about your ahmdiyyat hatred posts then please free.
“Away from Eyes…Close to Heart”
[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 07, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*Ali_r ...u are so misguided Guru Nanak was born of Hindu parents and has many places critized meaningless muslim and Hindu rituals. *
No doubt! He was born as HINDU! But he read the quran and used to apply the teachings of quran (partly) on his "apprentices" and his own life. He never critized QURAN . He critized Hinduism but never ISLAM!
That is what you heard but its not the truth.
I have sikh friends and I know a lot of family who can prove this.
Yeah I agree he said: "Neither I'm Muslim nor I'm Hindu!"
*His message is 180 degree diff than that of Islam. *
and what is this then?!:
*"Sikhism teaches that only one God exists. God's name is synonymous with the Truth. God is the sole Creator, Destroyer, and Caretaker. God is described as Omnipotent, Eternal, Fearless, and Without Enmity." *
words of GURU NANAK:
""Perhaps the Hindus were no longer Hindus but the Muslims remain devout to their faith." Guru Nanak replied,
"Let God's grace be the mosque, and devotion the prayer mat. Let the Quran be the good conduct. Let modesty be compassion, good manners fasting, you should be a Muslim the like of this. Let good deeds be your Kaaba and truth be your mentor. Your Kalma be your creed and prayer, God would then vindicate your honour." (Majh)
....180 degrees?!? You still sure!?
Guru Nanak's Messages:
- Share their earnings with others who are less fortunate - "Vand Chakna"
- Always remember God - "Naam Japna"
- Live a honest Life and to earn their living with honest labor - "Kirat Karna"
Nothing in common with ISLAM?!?
**
[/quote]
He went to Arabia and Iraq. He had meetings with the Muslim Hajis and Imams in Mecca and Baghdad. He also visited the land of the black Habash, Abyssina and a few Islands of the Indian Ocean. Thus Guru Nanak undertook an extensive missionary tour of the world.
Another fact:
Guru Nanak visited Sheikh Ibrahim the muslim successor of Baba Farid the great Sufi dervish of the twelfth century at Ajodhan.
When asked by Ibrahim which of the two religions was the true way to attain God, Guru Nanak replied;
"If there is one God, then there is only His way to attain Him, not another. One must follow that way and reject the other. Worship not him who is born only to die, but Him who is eternal and is contained in the whole universe."
On his fourth great journey in life Guru Nanak dressed in the blue garb of a Muslim pilgrim traveled to the west and visited Mecca, Medina and Baghdad. Arriving at Mecca, Guru Nanak fell asleep with his feet pointing towards the holy Kabba. When the watchman on his night rounds noticed this he kicked the Guru, saying, "How dare you turn your feet towards the house of God". At this Guru Nanak woke up and said, *"Good man, I am weary after a long journey. Kindly turn my feet in the direction where God is not." *.
When pilgrims and the holy men of the shrine gathered to hear Guru Nanak and question him, he sang in Persian;
May i know now why you criticize ISLAM??!
Guru Nanak never did! Why you then?!
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
Abdul Basit,
Let me ask you what is your belief on Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib? Do you believe he was a Muslim saint?
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**
Janam Saki are bunch fictional stories by various writers they are more like fairy tales with sometimes religious charcters. They have nothing to do with the religion. Reading of Janam Sakis is not allowed in any Gurudawara...teaching of all Gurus and various Bhagats are compiled in Guru Granth that is the only religious book Sikhs believe in.
I have no idea where u can get one..**
[/quote]
Rani,
Thank you for your input! Do you know who are the authers of Janum Sakhi? Gurus or just random Sikh believers?
And why is it not allowed to be read in a Gurudawara?
Please do let me know where can I get a copy of Guru Granth?! I would really like to read it!
Wonder when Rani will ask my questions after reading those facts.
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
** Rani,
Thank you for your input! Do you know who are the authers of Janum Sakhi? Gurus or just random Sikh believers?
Just random believers or any writer.
And why is it not allowed to be read in a Gurudawara?
It has nothing to do with religion they are just fictional stories.
Please do let me know where can I get a copy of Guru Granth?! I would really like to read it!
You can find one on the internet..
[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
** He went to Arabia and Iraq. He had meetings with the Muslim Hajis and Imams in Mecca and Baghdad. He also visited the land of the black Habash, Abyssina and a few Islands of the Indian Ocean. Thus Guru Nanak undertook an extensive missionary tour of the world.**
Guru Nanak met with many holy men he also went to Rishi kesh to have discussions with Sidhs (Hindu holy men).
**Another fact:
Guru Nanak visited Sheikh Ibrahim the muslim successor of Baba Farid the great Sufi dervish of the twelfth century at Ajodhan.
When asked by Ibrahim which of the two religions was the true way to attain God, Guru Nanak replied;
"If there is one God, then there is only His way to attain Him, not another. One must follow that way and reject the other. Worship not him who is born only to die, but Him who is eternal and is contained in the whole universe."
On his fourth great journey in life Guru Nanak dressed in the blue garb of a Muslim pilgrim traveled to the west and visited Mecca, Medina and Baghdad. Arriving at Mecca, Guru Nanak fell asleep with his feet pointing towards the holy Kabba. When the watchman on his night rounds noticed this he kicked the Guru, saying, "How dare you turn your feet towards the house of God". At this Guru Nanak woke up and said, *"Good man, I am weary after a long journey. Kindly turn my feet in the direction where God is not." *.
Baba Farid's vani is found in Guru Garanth Sahib..Guru Nanak spoke aganist meaningless rituals he believed that God is everywhere facing Kaaba doesn't make sense.
When pilgrims and the holy men of the shrine gathered to hear Guru Nanak and question him, he sang in Persian;
He always tried to speak in the language of the people he was visiting..Guru Granth has all the language spoken at that time including multani and sindi.
May i know now why you criticize ISLAM??!
Guru Nanak never did! Why you then?!
Guru Nanak criticized anybody who considered themselves better than others and didn't believe all men are equal and all religions should be respected and accepted regardless of who they were. He spoke against meaningless rituals of all religions giving water to sun or facing Kaaba. He was aganist nobody. He believed in freedom of choice and all religions lead to one God.
I don't hate anybody but hate the idea that human beings should be dividing according to their religion. I believe in one universal family of all mankind and have a big problem with philosphies that preach God favors one over the other.
**
[/quote]
We interpret this differently. He did this coz he respected our religion as he did others.
He was more in touch with MUSLIMs (sufis) than with HINDU priests (now you better ask yourself why!).
He RESPECTED OUR RELIGION AND HINDUISM, BHUDDISM etc etc., but where is your respect towards my religion.
Im sorry to say (I'm not attacking you!), but every time i read your posts i see NO REPSECT at all (-->Islam).
Rather more you keep on attacking the non-hindus in this forum.
I dont think Guru Nanak would have been happy with this. Would he?!!?
I'm not sure how much knowlegde you have about our religion.
If you read saying and teaching of Baba Farid, Bulley Shah, Auleya and all those great SUFIS you wont find any hate jealousy, among those saints. This is actually how Islam should be applyied.
These where muslims and muslims who showed us how you can "convert" muslims without killing, murdering, forcing.
I agree with you that what Taliban and Co are doing wrong. No doubt but still its not a reason to insult ME (my religion).
Don't you think?!? If some one jumps out of a window would you follow him?!
*“Ishq bhi ho Hijaab mein husn bhi ho Hijaab mein. Ya tu khud Aaskhaar ho ya mujh ko Aaskhaar kar.”
*
Rani im still waiting for an answer..thank you
*“Ishq bhi ho Hijaab mein husn bhi ho Hijaab mein. Ya tu khud Aaskhaar ho ya mujh ko Aaskhaar kar.”
*
Ali, please can you tell me how many followers Bulleh Shah had and how many he converted to Islam? Thanks
[quote]
Originally posted by ChannMahi:
Ali, please can you tell me how many followers Bulleh Shah had and how many he converted to Islam? Thanks
[/quote]
While his time he didnt have many followers. They all started to admire him after his death. No one cared about him first. But after reading his poetry and his sayings they got impressed. The number is quite less compared to Baba Farid and other Sufis but still there where some who accepted ISLAM. Mainly Sikhs.
Most of them are still SIKH and even then they visit the Bulleh Shah shrine.
Bulleh Shah was a very straight foward person and criticized the invasions of Nadir Shah and Ahmad Shah Abdali in his sufi poetry.
He tried to open the eyes of ppl.
Unfortunately almost every poem has only come down to us in verbal form.
"Learn no more knowledge, O friend!
This knowledge will be of no avail to you
You need to read only Alif
You read and read and pile your books into a heap
The Quran and other books are lying all around you
By reading and reading you become Mullah and Qazi
But God is pleased without their knowledge
Your avarice is whetted every day
you always aim at personal gain." -- Bulleh SHAH
[This message has been edited by Ali_R (edited September 11, 2001).]
If you read saying and teaching of Baba Farid, Bulley Shah, Auleya and all those great SUFIS you wont find any hate jealousy, among those saints. This is actually how Islam should be applyied.
I am glad u like the soft side of Islam. Actually Sufis were heavily influenced by eastern religions. That is the reason Sufis are not reconganized by mainstream Islamist. It is interesting to note that sufis such as Farid and Kabir were not interested in conversion and didn't preach following one particular book.
What you mean by "book"? elaborate.
If you mean Quran....oh yes they were. They were totally influenced by quran and this is it. ONLY quran and hadiths! No influence by typical Mullahs etc etc.
Secondly my question is still unanswered:
I agree with you that what Taliban and Co are doing wrong. No doubt but still its not a reason to insult ME (my religion).
Don't you think?!?
In fact Islam has only one version and thats the soft one.
Btw I want an explaination for your hatred.
*“Ishq bhi ho Hijaab mein husn bhi ho Hijaab mein. Ya tu khud Aaskhaar ho ya mujh ko Aaskhaar kar.”
*
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
*....
I am glad u like the soft side of Islam. Actually Sufis were heavily influenced by eastern religions. ..... *
[/quote]
and how would that be?
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?