Ghazwa-e-Ohad

Society Religion & Philosophy
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salam

Inspired by other thread “BADARI SAHABA RAA” i have two questions about ghazwa-e-ohad ?

  1. Do we consider that war lost ? did muslims lost the war ?

  2. Is there a list of Muslim mujahids who took part in the war. Is there a list of Sahaba’s who stayed with Prophet s.a.w when Kufaar’s came back and attacked again or is there a list muslims who ran away ?

Thanks

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Re: Ghazwa-e-Ohad

whats the idea behined your question?

the thread is ready prepared for you, if you are not a heretic, come:

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Re: Ghazwa-e-Ohad

[note]Thread reviewed and re-opened. Plz stick to OP's questions.[/note]

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Re: Ghazwa-e-Ohad

Did 'Umar (ra) run away from Uhud?

Thats neither my first or second question. It cud be a part of my second question.
My major questions are

  1. Do we consider that war lost ? did muslims lose the war ?
    **
    2.     Is there a list of Muslim mujahids** who took part in the war. Is there a list of Sahaba’s who stayed with Prophet s.a.w when Kufaar’s came back and attacked again or is there a list muslims who ran away ?
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Re: Ghazwa-e-Ohad

the reason i refered you that site is that the answers you want to question number 2 requires a great deal of knowledge and your best chance is on that site.

also that site is geared to answering these types of questions, and more appropriate allround. these inter faith questions have an element of absurdness to members of the other religion.

also you never answered why you are asking?

if you want a general view of what happend at ohad i can assist, but this information is available to you anyway.

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He is asking such questions to cause fitna, the motive is there when he asks, did Umar RA run away. The dude needs to get banned again.

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errr, looks like son of caliph umar- nor Imam Bukhari- had problem discussing the same question. A bit harsh to expect Aqeel to be banned for following the ways of salaf!

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Re: Ghazwa-e-Ohad

okay this is turning into a “cant ask questions about umar” thread and he is not even the main topic here. So Mods can u please rather close the thread. @FBI for banning someone AGAIN, there shld a first time when person was banned.

@ Shardmanny,

We were always taught in schools that we lost Ghazwa-e-Ohad. Later i was reading that we actually won the ghazwa…The number of Muslims martyred was more than number of Mushrikeen killed. However In the end Mushrikeen ran away.

http://www.kahopakistan.com/showthread.php?24765-Ghazwa-e-Ohad

It makes more sense too, They Attacked muslims to take over Islam and finish it but they coudnt succeed. I think we won the war. Had they won the war they wud take over madina just Like we muslims took over makkah at Fath-e-Makka.

About second question. Lets forget shias and sunnis but there should be a general list. A list of few sahaba that both shia and sunni agree upon that they ran away during the battle (i understand they were forgiven) or a list of sahaba that fought even though when others were running away. I want to know who are those sahaba that for sure ran away or stayed.

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[QUOTE]
i understand they were forgiven
[/QUOTE]

i dont think you do
they were forgiven for what actually happenned in reality not for what you alledge

also the shia view on this subject as on all other subjects paints a very negative picture of the companions, in hope that this would encourage people towards a more mushrik (polytheist) mindset when coupled with fairytale virtues of others. this is clearly people worship. ie MR X threw the gate into the air with his pinky finger and it hasnt fallen back to earth since

yet when we look at specific situations from the shia prospective the imams were so humiliated the shias smack their own heads even till today.

all this is pointing to deflating the virtues of the ahulbayt when sympathy is thought best by shias and making them superpower idols when required. the ahulbayt have been reduced to mere pawns, getting thrown about about as required by so called shias.

the 1000's of narrations which agree with ahulsunna are said by shias to be taqiyah (said in fear, for safety) so in the end no matter what is said, the shia view tramples all rules just to thwart the Prophethood of Muhammad SAW. shias are not particular about virtues of Ali RA or others from ahulbayt but what stands out is that they say: do not follow Muhammad SAW. this is kufr of the worst kind

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Salaam aqeel – It is not about questioning Hz. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him), just because he is very honoured companion and father in law of Rasool Allah (Peace be upon him). [And as matter of fact he is son in law of Hz. Ali (ra)!!!!]

According to Sunnis (nearly 90% of all the Muslims) No human is infallible apart from the Prophets (Peace be upon them all) and this includes those whom Shia consider to be infallible!!!

Not second guessing your intentions but you know that Shias as a whole pick up on Hz. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) very venomously/maliciously so much so that they take it to extreme. I am sure you are aware of this phenomenon.

You know of a personality who is very dear to all the Shia, that they eagerly await for his ‘Appearance’.

Did not this personality hide cave in Sarman Rai about 1500 years ago scared to death from his ‘enemies’ even though he was chosen and ‘protected by Allah (swt).

Do you consider him to be coward? Now be fair and apply the same rules. When humans panic they do run away from calamity.
Does he still have to keep on hiding? Why cower in the cave or behind the clouds?

I can ‘understand’ when he was 4 years old, but come on now he is 1200 plus years old!!!!!!!

Do you consider what I have asked above fair to you?

I will address the other points raised by you later in the day.

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I dunno how is it related to my post but ur stupid remarks about having power to do something but not using it, makes me praise Ahleybait a.s even more rather than denial. The same Prophet s.a.w who split moon into two peaces didnt do anything when stones were thrown at him s.a.w. Does that mean he s.a.w didnt split moon in two peaces ? Didnt Prophet s.a.w stay in cave when Mushrikeen wanted to kill him ?

Your act of denial is not a surprise coz ALLAH made it clear in Quran that he intends to keep away Najasat from Ahleybait a.s No wonder Nasibis like you can never come near Ahlebait a.s.

Back to Topic
did we lose the war ?
Can you provide me a list of Sahabas in Ohad, Omar bin Khatab cud be a warrior in ur list but is there a list you can provide me ?

I will not respond to any of the replies until it answers my first question.

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Re: Ghazwa-e-Ohad

WS

You are rite, it wasnt a surprise to me that every one was offended by the question, however can we move on ??
I wudnt reply much of ur post coz nuthing is related to my thread. the more detail i go into worst the thread will get.

Prophet s.a.w stayed in a cave, wasnt he s.a.w protected by ALLAH ? but running from a battle field is whole different thing. You go in the battle field knowing you will die or kill, at this point running away from battle field scared of death leaving Prophet s.a.w is not same. Sorry for using the same tone u used.

There r no points raised by me. I asked IS there a list or not. i didnt ask IF OR WHY.... if u want to clear my mind abt the results of Ghazwa that will be far more appreciated.

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aqeel ek dou teen.......u r not likely to get an answer but rather b taken on a journey from topics arnd the world by Ibn Sadique frm "sarman rai" to salman khan or what have u......... anyway the answer is simple......Khattab bhai was one of those who took off and for reference u may see Durul munsoor by Allamah Suyuti.......where Khattab bhai himself said tht he ran off and climbed the mountain "like a mountain goat" (and these r his own words - not mine) on the day of uhud.........for more info on uhud u cud see Tabari, yaqoobi and other tarikh books..........

as for the battle being 'lost'.........then I wud rather say that they failed to win rather than loss.......b/c any battle fought under the leadership of the Prophet SAWW can not be a loss to believers at least...........and Quran say in the 3rd chapter abt Uhud.....

verse 152.....Allah did indeed fulfil His promise to you when ye with His permission Were about to annihilate your enemy,-until ye flinched and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed it after He brought you in sight (of the booty) which ye covet. Among you are some that hanker after this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then did He divert you from your foes in order to test you but He forgave you: For Allah is full of grace to those who believe.

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next time i will post questions on ur wall Nussairee bahi. Thanks

Admins please close the thread.

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Salaam aqeel

I got the following from the Net:

Following extracts clearly show that Hz. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) was with the Prophet (peace be upon him) in the heat of the battle at the most critical time.

*At those awkward moments of that day, a group of Muslim heroes gathered around the Prophet [pbuh] forming a shield to protect him from the idolaters. Some of them were Abu Dujana, Mus‘ab bin ‘Umair, ‘Ali bin Abi Talib, Sahl bin Haneef, Malik bin — Sinan the father of Abu Sa‘îd Al-Khudri, Umm‘Amara, Nusaiba bint Ka‘b Al-Mâziniya, Qatada bin An-Nu‘man, ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab, Hatib bin Abi Balta‘a and Abu Talha.

Muhammad bin Maslamah brought him fresh water to drink. The Prophet [pbuh] drank and supplicated Allâh to provide him with good things. [As-Seerat Al-Halabiyah 2/30] Owing to the wounds and their bad effects on his body, the Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] led his followers in prayer in a sitting posture and so did the Muslims. [Ibn Hisham 2/87]

When the preparations of the idolaters for departure came to an end, Abu Sufyan went up the mountain and called out: “Is Muhammad [pbuh] among you?” They did not answer him.

Then he asked “Is Ibn Abi Quhafah (i.e. Abu Bakr) among you?” They did not answer.

He asked again: “Is ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab among you?” They did not answer him; for the Prophet [pbuh] forbade them answering him.

He only asked about those three. That is because he and his people knew quite well that the call to Islam depended to a large degree on those men.

Abu Sufyan then said: “As for those three, we have relieved you of.” ‘Umar could not help but talking, so he said, “O enemy of Allâh, those whom you have just mentioned, I tell you that they are still alive. Allâh has maintained what you hate.”

Abu Sufyan answered: “The mutilation of your killed is something I did not order it; but it did not displease me.” Then he shouted: “Hubal (an idol), let it be sublime!” The Prophet [pbuh] said: “Why do you not reply?” “What shall we say?” They asked him. “Say: Allâh is more Sublime and Exalted and Mightier as well.”

He said: “Al-‘Uzza (i.e. an idol) is ours but you have no ‘Uzza.” “Why do you not reply?”

The Prophet [pbuh] said. “What shall we say?” They inquired. He said: “Say Allâh is our Protector, but you have no protector.”

Abu Sufyan said: “Well deeds! Today is a vengeance for Badr Day. This for that. War is attended with alternate success.” ‘Umar’s reply was: “No. They are not the same. Our killed men are housed in Paradise; but yours are in Fire.”

Then Abu Sufyan said: “Come on, ‘Umar!” The Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] said: “Go and see what the matter is.”

He went there. Abu Sufyan asked him: “I beseech you by Allâh’s Name to tell me the truth: Have we killed Muhammad [pbuh]?” ‘Umar said: “O Allâh, ‘No’ and now he is listening to you words.” He said: “For me, you are more truthful than Ibn Qami’a, and even more reliable.” [Ibn Hisham 2/93,94; Za’d Al-Ma’ad 2/94; Sahih Al-Bukhari 2/579]

Ibn Ishaq said: When Abu Sufyan and those who were with him were leaving he called out notifying: “We will meet again at Badr next year.” The Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] said to one of his men: “Say: ‘Yes, it is an appointment for both of us.’” [Ibn Hisham 2/94]

*witness-pioneer.org

*The Quraish charged with full force, but the Muslims held fast. Then in the counter attack the Muslims broke the enemy line, and the Quraish fell back. At this stage the contingent of the Muslim archers, contrary to instructions, left their position in order to plunder the camp of the retreating Quraish. Khalid who was still a non-Muslim, and was fighting on the side of the Quraish rushed with his contingent and occupied the position vacated by the Muslim archers. The Quraish rallied, and launched an attack on the Muslims both from the front as well as the rear.

In the confusion that followed, many Muslims were martyred. Even the Holy Prophet was wounded seriously, and he fell in a pit where many of his followers lay dead. Thereupon a cry rose from the ranks of the enemy that they had killed the Prophet of Islam.

When the news of the Holy Prophet’s death got wind, panic seized some of the Muslims, and thinking that all was over, they fled to Madina According to tradition when Umar heard the news that the Holy Prophet had died, he flung his arms declaring that it was no use fighting any longer.

It is related that Anas b Nadar passing by Umar asked him how it had fared with the Prophet. Umar replied that he had heard that the Prophet had been killed. Anas observed that the Prophet’s death should not prevent him from fighting in the way of Allah, for Allah was alive. Saying this Anas rushed at the infidels, and was martyred after having received seventy wounds.

Later, the Holy Prophet was found lying in a pit. At this stage Ali, Abu Bakr, Umar, Talha, Zubair, and Harith gathered round the Prophet, and removed him to a place of safety.

Abu Sufiyan the leader of the Quraish climbed a hillock and shouted, “Is Muhammad there?” The Holy Prophet asked his companions to remain quiet.

Abu Sufiyan then called for Abu Bakr and Umar. No reply was made, and thereupon Abu Sufiyan shouted, “All of them have been killed.’

At this Umar could not restrain himself, and shouted in reply, “O enemy of Allah, all of us are alive.”

Abu Sufiyan in a mood of exultation cried, “Hubbal glory to thee.”

Umar retorted, "Only Allah is Most High and Great.”

Abu Sufiyan said, “We have Uzza with us, and you have no lord.”

Umar retaliated, “Allah is our Lord, and you have no lord.”

When the two armies withdrew from the battle-field, seventy Muslims lay dead on the battle-field. In the battle the Quraish had the upper hand. They felt satisfied that they had avenged their defeat at Badr. The Quraish were in no mood to press their advantage to march to Madina. They chose to return to Mecca.*http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=220585094618158

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One of the prominent Companion who fled from the battle was Hz. Uthman bin Affan (ra)

Narrated Uthman: (the son of Muhib) An Egyptian who came and performed the Hajj to the Kaba saw some people sitting. He enquire, "Who are these people?" Somebody said, "They are the tribe of Quraish." He said, "Who is the old man sitting amongst them?" The people replied, "He is Abdullah bin 'Umar." He said, "O Ibn 'Umar! I want to ask you about something; please tell me about it. Do you know that 'Uthman fled away on the day (of the battle) of Uhud?" ..

Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." The (Egyptian) man said, "Do you know that Uthman was absent on the day (of the battle) of Badr and did not join it?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." The man said, "Do you know that he failed to attend the Ar Ridwan pledge and did not witness it (i.e. Hudaibiya pledge of allegiance)?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." The man said, "Allahu Akbar!"

Ibn 'Umar said, "Let me explain to you (all these three things). As for his flight on the day of Uhud, I testify that Allah has excused him and forgiven him; and as for his absence from the battle of Badr, it was due to the fact that the daughter of Allah's Apostle was his wife and she was sick then.

Allah's Apostle said to him, "You will receive the same reward and share (of the booty) as anyone of those who participated in the battle of Badr (if you stay with her).' As for his absence from the Ar-Ridwan pledge of allegiance, had there been any person in Mecca more respectable than Uthman (to be sent as a representative).

Allah's Apostle would have sent him instead of him. No doubt, Allah's Apostle had sent him, and the incident of the Ar-Ridwan pledge of Allegiance happened after Uthman had gone to Mecca. Allah's Apostle held out his right hand saying, 'This is Uthman's hand.' He stroke his (other) hand with it saying, 'This (pledge of allegiance) is on the behalf of Uthman.' Then Ibn 'Umar said to the man, 'Bear (these) excuses in mind with you.'

From Sahih Bukhari
Volume 5, Book 57, Number 48

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ تَوَلَّوْا مِنْكُمْ يَوْمَ الْتَقَى الْجَمْعَانِ إِنَّمَا اسْتَزَلَّهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ بِبَعْضِ مَا كَسَبُوا ۖ وَلَقَدْ عَفَا اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ {155}

(As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met, only the Shaitan sought to cause them to make a slip on account of some deeds they had done, and certainly Allah has pardoned them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing. [3:155]

What is the purpose and gain for you to question the deeds of those who Allah (swt) has forgiven out of His Mercy?

Are you disappointed with Allah's (swt) decision? Or are you accepting it grudgingly with some reservations deep in your heart.

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*Nussairee * glad you got sense of humour - Salman Khan in "sarman rai" cave too! - Let's keep Bollywood out of this

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Salaam **aqeel ** Yes I agree with you that it was sort of victory for the Muslims though they could have done much better if some them had kept to the plan laid out the Prophet (saw).

Surviving to fight for the next time and not letting the Mushrikeens finish them off was ‘sort of victory’ but with very heavy price.

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I am please to see you pleased...........I actually haven't watched any of salman khan's movie after one of his early day movie Mainay Pyaar kiya.......dunno abt his connection to "sarman rai" but hey who knows!...........

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I don't have much info on the topic so I'm just sitting in the back listening here.

This post REALLY caught my eye. I wouldn't be talking if I were you. If I wanted to, I could post well over 15 examples of you jarh-ing fasaad on all subforums in this place.