Not so long ago we heard a story about a Muslim woman who won the right to teach in school wearing the veil. This will change. Germany plans to ban the Muslim veil in public schools and some German states (Berlin, Hessen, Saarland) even want to ban it in other state institutions. Christian and Jewish symbols - including Jewish kippas - will be allowed. Germans argue that the veil is not just a religious symbol but a political statement.
See the link:
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and that makes u so happy???
And they talk about freedom, hypocritical b*****s.
Pathetic.
Another gem from democracy.
They can call it a democracy all they like, it will never be one, with such attitudes.
ditto :k:
so much 4 religious tolerism
Dumb rule would change soon :p
Thank God I live in America not Europe.
Hypocritical West!
Then they wonder why, muslims call them biased and against muslims.
Bery Bery Bad!
What is the status of nonmoslems in Islamic paradises?
Are nonmoslems allowed to practice their religion freely or build their places of worship in SaudiArabia, Iran, Syria, Iraq?
Are nonmoslems even allowed to participate in Govt or enroll in military? Are they treated equal? Than why do you expect others to be fair with you?
As for my personal opinion, i would have been happier if they would have extended the same for christians, jews, sikhs,hindoos..et all.
Soul
I think you have missed the point. Germany is supposed to be a democratic country which says it implements freedom of speech, freedom of religion etc.
Saudi is a kingship/monarchy which is not democractic or islamic by any means.
IF a country such as Germany claims to be implementing freedom and then they ban a child from putting a piece of cloth on there head because of their beliefs, they are clearly hypocrites and not practicing what they preach. This is the clear difference in your examples.
heh well germany does not have an exemplary track record when it comes to religious tolerance..does it :)
*What is the status of nonmoslems in Islamic paradises? *
One wrong does not make another wrong justified. In countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia other sects, let alone other religions are unable to practice their religion, and that is wrong.
We should be hoping that those countries grow up and allow minorities to follow their own faith, a reverse trend for more free societies going backwards does no one any good.
*Are nonmoslems allowed to practice their religion freely or build their places of worship in SaudiArabia, Iran, Syria, Iraq? *
Saudi Arabia, definteky no, as i noted their lack of hospitality in this area extends to muslims of other sects or schools of thought as well, Its similar for Iran although not as bad. fairly different in Iraq and Syria.
*Are nonmoslems even allowed to participate in Govt or enroll in military? *
well in some countries yes, in even the dictatorial regime of Iraq, Tariq Aziz was a Christian.
** Are they treated equal? Than why do you expect others to be fair with you? **
because, saudi Arabian or Iranian govts do not represent muslims. yes they are not treating miniroties fairly, that is wrong. Why does it have to mean that others who have nothing to do with these govts lose their ability to practice their religion.
We should instead be focused on human rights in all countries, which includes minority affairs and whether the minority is of a racial, ethnic or religious nature.
ak47, what you pointed out is the real core of the matter....Democracy.
Germany is a democratic country, so this ban by their govt has ppl support. They have only singled out Moslem immigrants, not others. If you know lil' about the current politics there, the recent elections were fought on anti-moslem platform.
And Fraudz,
this is not only in Germany, my friend, Moslem immigrants have made lots of foes all round europe. The closures of Italian, France and swedish radical mosques...the raids conducted in 33 German mosques. The defeat of communist govt in Norway solely because it was pro-moslem...the raise of rightwing BNP in britain. Does it ring bell!!
[QUOTE]
because, saudi Arabian or Iranian govts do not represent muslims. yes they are not treating miniroties fairly, that is wrong. Why does it have to mean that others who have nothing to do with these govts lose their ability to practice their religion.
We should instead be focused on human rights in all countries, which includes minority affairs and whether the minority is of a racial, ethnic or religious nature.
[/QUOTE]
Its all very lofty and nice, but when germans or italians travel to M. E.countries and get treated unequally, they do drive a point home, which is not very pleasent. You can not seperate two situations, one has bearing on the other.
I am happy, that you have condemned the Saudi Arabian or Iranian govts for their atrocities on thier minorities....but the fact is, not many come forward and condemn such acts.
Well for a brief explaination on the situation-
In germany most of the immigrants are of Turkish origin. They have a long history of crusade that neither church nor the Mosque would let ppl forget. The problem erupted when germany sent its troops as a part of coalition force to fight war in Afghanistan. The Mosque urged the local moslems to take up arms against the Govt and wage a jihad in Germany...This called for a violent backlash on the moslem immigrants. And 33 mosque were raided...In answer to this, The mosque sermoned ppl to shun west and adopt traditional outfits in definance. Thus the article says that Head Scarfs are seen as a Political statement not a Religious or Cultural.
Right and wrong is very relative...from where i see it....German natives have every right to protect and protest against violent immigrants trying to bring in disharmony. Afterall whom does the house belongs to???
And this not about Islam or christianity or democracy....its about immigrant's inability to intigrate and adapt with host populance.
and its the same story every where in europe....rather than just blindly blaming others as anti-moslems, it would help, if lil' soul searching is done from your end too.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
Soul
I think you have missed the point. Germany is supposed to be a democratic country which says it implements freedom of speech, freedom of religion etc.
Saudi is a kingship/monarchy which is not democractic or islamic by any means.
IF a country such as Germany claims to be implementing freedom and then they ban a child from putting a piece of cloth on there head because of their beliefs, they are clearly hypocrites and not practicing what they preach. This is the clear difference in your examples.
[/QUOTE]
it muslims choice to immigrate to a specefic country based on
local religen and laws.
Soul
You have failed again for second time to see the flaw in your arguement so i will point it out one more time.
the country of Germany claims to implement Freedom of religion and freedom of speech etc.
By banning children or women from wearing there headscarves they have contradicited there own system and showed the the flaw in there claim of freedom of religion in this example
As for your statement on islamic crusade by the German government, sweden etc. This is nothing new muslims have been discriminated for long time. Your argument that people wear cloths that are associated with muslim countries is really almost laughable and is just another example of the false claim of freedom because according to your statement you no longer have freedom to wear what you want!
The Turkish immigrants that you bring up have for long time been discrimintaed against its not nothing new, this is seen world over you discriminate against a group they will form there own culture and areas,
You can see this with hispanics in LA to the afro americans in chicago and new york. Its not just restricted to muslims.
The rich in Germany do not mix with the poor in Germany they only associate with there own kind i.e rich people. They don't integrate with the poor or blacks or asian. So your argument is flawed for the reasons i mentioned.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *
ak47, what you pointed out is the real core of the matter....Democracy.
Germany is a democratic country, so this ban by their govt has ppl support. They have only singled out Moslem immigrants, not others. If you know lil' about the current politics there, the recent elections were fought on anti-moslem platform.
.....
[/QUOTE]
and when same "Democratic core" is applied in Iraq or Iran and people want "Islamic" government, the world is crying river and calls it "Theocracy", I say its Worldwide hypocricy.
Ak47,
If moslem immigrants for no reason from their end, feel discreminated...why dont they pack their bags and go back to their islamic paradises...Who is forcing them to stay in the evil west??
and as for freedom of speech and practice of religion et all....
well every freedom has a string attached. At the end of the day, an immigrant is staying on an alien land...if he/she *fails * to respect the culture of that land, be faithful to ppl and their govt policies and try to integgrate into the mainsteam, their freedom of 'this and that' goes into the next ditch.
Thats the reality, it never works one sided.
Those natives dont owe a single penny to immigrants...To expect them to understand your sensitivity, is your naivity.
As you see,sikhs, hindus, jews are not targetted...than why only moslems??? think!!