I am not against people having religious inclination. I am just wondering how it all started. In 90s, the religious zeal was no to these heights. The society was a lot more moderate and calm. Now when you go out, you find two school of thoughts among youth. The on sporting advanced moderation. Hanging out, smoking sheesha etc. The other growing beard in high school, shutting off from too ‘loud’ peers, attending masjid 5 times a day, things like these.
I wont mind either school of thought if for the first one, they had no stepped across too vague boundries of what is ethical and what is not, and for te second one, if they wont shut off and look down at whatever didnt belong to them-pigeon eyed in other words.
Where did all this spring from? The early 2000, when the ‘enlighten moderation’ was the ‘in’ term and some espoused that, many others took that as a threat and stood up as a force to rebel that. If all the change was not sudden, insurrection wont be there. Or at least wont be this strong.
Sometimes I feel as a nation we are little bit more emotional and less exposed to more moderate thoughts . We do have people with balance opinions , but very few and usually dominated by the forces of extremism . In recent past we had a very clear split in society and now when I interact with people around me I can clearly see people either following Islam or otherwise . Means religion has become more of a cultural thing now and less of following a faith .
I am not sure how it will change back to the position where both can tolerate each other , but it won't be an instant change . It will take years and years , and a leadership that I can't see in recent future .
I really can't fathom this whole go-mullah trend in Pakistan. It happened with the cricket team too. Why can't they all just relax and excel at what they're doing?
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this question shows the asker is not able to comprehend the very basic idea of religion.
is it fair to say the poster is intellectually challenged?
Before we go anywhere with this discussion, What is advanced moderation?
Moderation in itself should mean to avoid excessiveness. But people who wanted to be moderate were at the opposite pole of religious extremism. A family friend (Hamid Mir) used to refer to it as 'advance moderation'.
So this definition is only regarding the social context, not discussing religion? Because I don't find your definitions to match. I smoke sheesha, hang out with chicks yet pray 5 times a day, fast and have a Islamic view point of life.
The religious extremism skyrocketed in the moderate middle class after 911. After 911, when I went back to Pakistan, that was the most common drawing room topic - how f’ed we muslims are and oh poor us and how evil the US is and how Americans just want us to all die.
This paranoia, partially fed by terrorist networks themselves to gain more support, is just out of control now. I can’t have a conversation with someone out there without Islam being pulled into the scene.
It’s like, you know what? I am muslim as are most of you, and I really dont want to come home to listen to religious lectures from YOU. If I want to learn more about religion, I’ll go to the Quran or someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. Not interested in hearing amateurs.
I am not against people having religious inclination. I am just wondering how it all started. In 90s, the religious zeal was no to these heights. The society was a lot more moderate and calm. Now when you go out, you find two school of thoughts among youth. The on sporting advanced moderation. Hanging out, smoking sheesha etc. The other growing beard in high school, shutting off from too 'loud' peers, attending masjid 5 times a day, things like these.
I wont mind either school of thought if for the first one, they had no stepped across too vague boundries of what is ethical and what is not, and for te second one, if they wont shut off and look down at whatever didnt belong to them-pigeon eyed in other words.
Where did all this spring from? The early 2000, when the 'enlighten moderation' was the 'in' term and some espoused that, many others took that as a threat and stood up as a force to rebel that. If all the change was not sudden, insurrection wont be there. Or at least wont be this strong.
I would say that it's an over simplification to say that the whole trend started after mushy's enlightened moderation. The origins of both schools of thought is much older. In the past the 'modern' side was mostly confined to the well off in society who minded their own business most of the time as long as they were allowed to indulge in thier 'modern' activities.
As for the second school of thought, they were busy in other places and their direct impact on the 'modern' class wasn't as much. The religious who want to wear their religion on their sleeves were always around and especially found state sponsorship in zia's time. They were more of a nuisance for outsiders and minorities than the average pakistani and hence everyone let them be. After 911, these outside avenues to vent their frustration closed off. At this point, their presence started to impact the locals and the country as a whole. This is where the conflict started.
The current wave of mulla-ism is clearly a by product of American "War on Terror".
By the late 90s, mulla-ism was slowly fading away from Pakistani society but unfortunately with the start of War on Terror, Mulla-ism in Pakistan got a new lease of life.
Weak minded people with poor education are most likely to fall prey to this phenomena.
I personally find this situation to be very ugly but there is little anyone can do about it till all these lost souls find the right path themselves and be 'normal' again.
I really can't fathom this whole go-mullah trend in Pakistan. It happened with the cricket team too. Why can't they all just relax and excel at what they're doing?
Makes no sense at all.
this question shows the asker is not able to comprehend the very basic idea of religion.
is it fair to say the poster is intellectually challenged?
Moderation in itself should mean to avoid excessiveness. But people who wanted to be moderate were at the opposite pole of religious extremism. A family friend (Hamid Mir) used to refer to it as 'advance moderation'.
Atleast the fundamentals say it how it is.. These people who claim to be "englighterned moderates"or whatever is just plain bull****. Either you follow Islam, or you don't. No point in trying to sugar coat everything to make it more appealing for others. Follow your religion, or reject it completly.
Atleast the fundamentals say it how it is.. These people who claim to be "englighterned moderates"or whatever is just plain bull****. Either you follow Islam, or you don't. No point in trying to sugar coat everything to make it more appealing for others. Follow your religion, or reject it completly.
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asked Muslims to be moderate...
i think you are misrepresenting the words of the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu alaihi wassalam in the context being discussed here
please do dot confuse the falsehood of that village in india, qadian, to the teaching of islam.
(collected accounts of the sayings and deeds of Muhammad SAW), the Prophet said: "It is very close, that different nations will invite one another against you, just as people seated around a platter of food invite one another to consume that food."
Someone asked the Prophet: "Will we be few in number that day?"
The Prophet said: "No you will be many, but you will be like the rubbish of the flood. Allah will extract from the hearts of your enemies their fear and Allah will cast in your hearts wahn (weakness)."
Someone asked the Prophet: "What does wahn mean?"
The Prophet said: "The love of the dunya (the world) and the dislike (fear) of death."
So this definition is only regarding the social context, not discussing religion? Because I don't find your definitions to match. I smoke sheesha, hang out with chicks yet pray 5 times a day, fast and have a Islamic view point of life.
By my very existence I mess up your definition :p
I mess up the definition myself. I talk to guys, dont cover my head, but pray five times a day and want to learn the religion. But see, if i made up a definition by putting myself as benchmark, everyone would come up to 'burst my bubble' in the whole thread:p
Religious hype is a response to war on terror. This must be true because a lot of people talk about it. But I haven’t personally seen the youth transforming for that reason.
This passage is costructive and productive if it really happens.
I would say that it's an over simplification to say that the whole trend started after mushy's enlightened moderation. The origins of both schools of thought is much older. In the past the 'modern' side was mostly confined to the well off in society who minded their own business most of the time as long as they were allowed to indulge in thier 'modern' activities.
As for the second school of thought, they were busy in other places and their direct impact on the 'modern' class wasn't as much. The religious who want to wear their religion on their sleeves were always around and especially found state sponsorship in zia's time. They were more of a nuisance for outsiders and minorities than the average pakistani and hence everyone let them be. After 911, these outside avenues to vent their frustration closed off. At this point, their presence started to impact the locals and the country as a whole. This is where the conflict started.
It definitely surfaced in mush's time. Before that you wont see that much of youth in mosques and you wont see, girls and guys hanging out that much either.
If the maniacs existed, they were a small fraction.
