Genuine Query & Is a bad muslim... (merged)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Genuine Query

And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh.

What this hadeeth means is that whoever leaves Islam and changes to another religion and persists in that and does not repent, is to be executed.

It was also proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a person who bears witness that there is no god but Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah except in three cases: a life for a life, a previously-married person who commits adultery, and one who leaves Islam and forsakes the jamaa’ah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim.

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Re: Genuine Query

Lashes vs death. Can't say which one is worse than the other. I don;t think i'ld live thru a hundred lashes either so in my case death would probably be the easy way off.

Femme, the severity of both punishment is different. One is less severe (lashes) vs the other (death). That's the main point.

PA and et al.

I don't think you need to tell this to some one who is non-Muslim. First and foremost your "duty" is to clean up the ones who preach differently (ie, reversion is punishable by death). I think that's what's lacking in Muslim world today. There are fewer people taking the frontline fighting the miseducation. Their efforts are better suited towards those who put faith on more harm by being part of it.

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Re: Genuine Query

AnHuzu :saw: cannot speak against Quran. That is for sure. If we find a hadeeth that is catagorically against the teachings of Quran, we have to reject that hadeeth OR INTERPRET IT DIFFERENTLY.

And Quran clearly states that Allah is the one who can punish such a person.

**Chapter : 4 (Al-Nisa’) Verse : 138 [Short Commentary]

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way. **

In the above verse, if apostasy is punishable by death, then there won’t be a case where you can disbelieve again.

**Chapter : 27 (Al-Naml) Verse : 93 [Short Commentary]

'And to recite the Qur’an. So whoever follows guidance follows it only for the good of his own soul; and as to him who goes astray, say, ‘I am only a Warner.’ **

In this verse, Allah has said that tell them(Disbelievers) that I AM ONLY A WARNER. Warner doesn’t go ahead and kills someone.

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Re: Genuine Query

Do we have examples of people who were killed by Prophet Mohammad :saw: or upon his order for having the circle of Islam?

Roman at the same time people who are aware of both schools of thought (those who believe in the death penalty and those who don’t) why must they keep repeating the less tolerant of the two in order to spark arguments?

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Re: Genuine Query

Femme, I didn't get your question. What do you mean? To me rvkz is simply comparing the two scenarios to come up with a deduction.

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Re: Genuine Query

rvikz is also aware that not everyone believes that death is the punishment for leaving Islam as is shown by PA's and JP's posts. Why does he choose to debate the view that makes muslim appear less tolerant.

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Re: Genuine Query

Probably just to make the people holding the two different views fight amongst themselves!

Yes, most probably. But that's a good cause. If you dont' "fight" the ignorant (mullahs), they eventually hijack the faith. rvikz ko allah taalah sawab day ga iss kaam par :D

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Re: Genuine Query

this verse is good it says dont seek enemity of other faiths unless they take your land.

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Re: Genuine Query

rvikz, did you mean to say "this verse is good it says dont seek enemity of other faiths unless they take your land*?*" ? :D

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Re: Genuine Query

Well rvikz Islam teaches us to stand up for our rights and defend whats rightfully ours. Something wrong with that?

mama k haath ka khana....
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Re: Genuine Query

this is rational concept and can be used intra-muslim disputes too and non-muslim
defending thier soverignity. you cant say kafir country cant fight for their rights
it is not a relgious specefic .

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Re: Genuine Query

^ Only if they are confused as to which land is your land…which land is my land..from california to the NY island… :jhanda:

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Re: Genuine Query

^ All land belong to Allah swt and we, the muslims are the caretakers of it. you, the non-muslims should pay rent henceforth.

mama k haath ka khana....
mama k haath ka khana....
mama k haath ka khana....
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Re: Genuine Query

^ Allah needs a new zamindaar, you guys have really made the place into a hovel.

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Re: Genuine Query

Did I? Who did?

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Re: Genuine Query

i did not mean you said that but clear the misconception of darul harb vs darul isalm,

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Re: Genuine Query

don’t throw arrows in air, ask or say clearly what exactly your question/comment is.

Hi. This is new. Please, welcome ....
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Re: Genuine Query

rvikz although i dont believe in the dar-ul-harb theory etc (not all muslims believe in it), i just wanted to make it clear that it is "dar-us-salam" and not darul islam....

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Re: Genuine Query

Originally Posted by rvikz

Personally, I have no problem with the above. A Muslim man or a woman engaged in adultery are great sinners indeed and rebels against the laws of Islam and face severest punishments.

If caught committing this act (adultery) the authorities must mete out the following - 100 lashes if unmarried and stoned to death if married at the time.

If they ‘escape’ the above punishments through whatever reasons, [bribery, influence, taking extreme precautions of not being caught out [or living in the Liberal West] they will have to account to Allah (swt) for their misdeeds.

Eventually, having been ‘cleansed’ by the hell-fire, they will be admitted to the Heaven of very lower grade.

On the other hand if they repent sincerely for their misdeeds and ask for Allah’s forgiveness, it is His Wish to accept or not.

**Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgives anything else, ** to whom He pleased; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed. 4:48

Allah forgives not (The sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgives whom He pleased other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Had strayed far, far away (from the right). 4:116

Islam does discriminate between the Believers and non-Believers. Period. And so do other religions - putting themselves on the top of the pile.

That is true too, and for her good deeds she will be compensated by being ‘handled’ rather gently than others in the hell.

“People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, ‘Three.’ Refrain; better is it for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him - (He is) above having a son.” (4:171)

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. 5:73

**If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost. ** 3:85

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Re: Genuine Query

There is no concept of Stoning to death to anyone in Islam.

As for adultery punishment, Quran says:

[24:3] The adulteress and the adulterer - flog each one of them with a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain take hold of you in executing the judgement of Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.

and then it says:

[24:6] Except those who repent thereafter and make amends, for truly Allah is Most forgiving, Merciful.

In the above verse, Allah says, except for the ones who repent. If you stone to death to someone, how can he/she repent?

Secondly, no where in Hadood Law of Pakistan, a punishment is prescribed for an accuser who accuses wrongfully. Which is against Islamic teachings. And no one brings this point to the table. The following verse illustratest this.

[24:5] And those who culminate chaste woman but bring not four witnesses - flog them with eighty stripes, and do not admit their evidence ever after, for it is they that are the transgression,

So here, if someone wrongfully accuses a women, and he cannot bring four witnesses in his defence, he will be punished with 80 stripes. You will not see this punishment in Pakistani Hudood Laws.

And furthermore, Quran says:

[24:7] And as for those who charge their wives with adultery and have no witnesses except themselves - the evidence of anyone of such people shall suffice if he bears witness four times in the name of Allah solemnly affirming that he is of those who speak the truth;
[24:8] And the fifth time that Allah’s curse be upon him if he be of the liars.

[24:9] But it shall avert the punishment from her if she bears witness four times in the name of Allah that he is of the liars
[24:10] And the fifth time that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he has spoken the truth.

Above verses are also advocate that there is no ‘stoning to death concept’. Actually, it will clear the charges from the accused if she bare witneess four time in Allah’s name and fifth time that the wrath of Allah be upon her if she’s lying.