Re: Gentleman
The situation doesn't seem exaggerated at all. I have seen this quite often. Outsiders can't do anything about it though.
Re: Gentleman
This whole assumption sounds so not possible. It's a known fact that men are always always way way way more religious than women.
I think it is the opposite. Almost every aunty/uncle I know or have come across, the aunty prays 5 times a day, reads quran, fasts etc. and the man doesn't do any of it. Even among younger couples that I know...it is a similar situation. I can't get my hubby to pray during Ramadan even if my life depended on it. :(
Re: Gentleman
^ I think that's why our society is so corrupt and messed up, if you think about it, the guys have no proper grasp of any spirituality. And the ones who think they do, have it all wrong.
Re: Gentleman
^ True. I also noticed that when a man is religious - he ensures his wife and children practice as well, however, if a woman is religious and her husband is not (she either doesn't push religion on him or tries a few times and fails so leaves it be). Why is it that if a man is religious he ends up ensuring the rest of his family follow suit but a woman cannot do the same (cuz the man won't listen)? I find it odd how my MIL is always praying and reading quran, meanwhile FIL is a couch potato all day long (its not like he has anything better to do). I've NEVER seen him pray. She never even asks him too (too submissive a wife...god forbid she ask him to do something for the sake of allah). My hubby at least prays like once a day during Ramadan (that's actually good....for him).
@ monk. Haha..all that prettiness goes out to the door..when she is lecturing you to not watch movie...tv or do other activities andd wear shalwar ya thoob with ankle high. Hence you fight...
Re: Gentleman
same here, most desi men only remember Islam in Ramadan
Re: Gentleman
^ I think that's why our society is so corrupt and messed up, if you think about it, the guys have no proper grasp of any spirituality. And the ones who think they do, have it all wrong.
I don't think religiosity is the same is spirituality. You can be spiritual and not follow the rituals. I've always wondered about that, which is worse: to follow the spirit of Islam, in terms of charity, kindness and empathy, but be more lax about praying and fasting, or to be strict about praying and fasting but not necessarily embody the true meaning of the rules. We see a lot of the latter.
Re: Gentleman
Wow... I will have a hard time living with such lady. Guess what during my wife hunting I will make sure that she did not attend any Madrasa, Jamia and certainly was not around people like 'Farhat Hashmi'. I need a wife not a 'masterni' and I am not the kind of person who can tolerate 'master or masterni'.
On a side note don't you guys think that such a wife will be easy to afford... I mean no high street fashion, no jewelry, no makeup, face wash, facial creams and hair removal creams. A burqa and a plain chappal would be enough to satisfy her religious sentiments.
Re: Gentleman
I don't think religiosity is the same is spirituality. You can be spiritual and not follow the rituals. I've always wondered about that, which is worse: to follow the spirit of Islam, in terms of charity, kindness and empathy, but be more lax about praying and fasting, or to be strict about praying and fasting but not necessarily embody the true meaning of the rules. We see a lot of the latter.
Not asking this on a personal level... but generally saying I've heard the above so often.
Why is it so hard for charitable/ kind muslim to lack the discipline needed to observe salat 5 times a day (or other "ritualistic/ farz" acts) ? I mean is all of their energy consumed in being a "nice" human being that their's nothing left for the most fundamental act of worship (the account of which will the first sorted once in our graves...)
Similarly, it baffles me when I see muslims who do cover up/ pray 5 times a day etc but still cant maintain ties of kinship, badd-ikhlaaq, rude to their maids... if bowing infront of our Creator 5 times a day doesn't bring humility then there's something really wrong with that person... it doesn't mean however that they stop praying until their behaviour changes for the better.
I think spirituality and rituals/ religiousness go hand in hand... rituals can only show benefit if the spirit behind it is understood and a truly spiritual person will be the one who adheres to rituals.
Re: Gentleman
Not asking this on a personal level... but generally saying I've heard the above so often.
Why is it so hard for charitable/ kind muslim to lack the discipline needed to observe salat 5 times a day (or other "ritualistic/ farz" acts) ? I mean is all of their energy consumed in being a "nice" human being that their's nothing left for the most fundamental act of worship (the account of which will the first sorted once in our graves...)
Similarly, it baffles me when I see muslims who do cover up/ pray 5 times a day etc but still cant maintain ties of kinship, badd-ikhlaaq, rude to their maids... if bowing infront of our Creator 5 times a day doesn't bring humility then there's something really wrong with that person... it doesn't mean however that they stop praying until their behaviour changes for the better.
I think spirituality and rituals/ religiousness go hand in hand... rituals can only show benefit if the spirit behind it is understood and a truly spiritual person will be the one who adheres to rituals.
I agree with you. I don't understand people who claim to believe wholeheartedly but don't observe the rituals. On the other hand, I fully understand people who follow the rituals but fail to grasp the spirit of the law. These people, in my humble opinion, are worse than non-Muslims who are actually empathic and gentle. Hollow rituals mean nothing.
I do disagree with you about spirituality and religion. You're assuming that one has to believe in a particular religion, or Islam, to be spiritual. What if a Buddhist believed in all the principles of Islam but obviously didn't observe the rituals. You don't think atheists or agnostics can be spiritual? They are spiritual, but not religious from an Islamic perspective. Furthermore, many people have doubts about religion so they may use it only as a pathway to spirituality.
It comes down the the purpose of religion, in this case Islam: is it to create better people or is it to create more Muslims?
Re: Gentleman
It comes down the the purpose of religion, in this case Islam: is it to create better people or is it to create more Muslims?
According to Quran, being a Muslim by default should make you a better human being.
How many times the word salaat and zakaat is mentioned in the same breadth in the Holy Quran? Both are farz. You can't choose one over the other.
Hakookul Allah and hakookul ibaad goes hand in hand.
Re: Gentleman
Let's say your wife gets WAY more religious. She changes her clothing, drops her job because she says women who sit at home are more closer to God, stops doing her hair and going out to nice dawats for you, starts wearing niqaab, you can't even see her face in public when you go out with her.
And now let's say all this change happens, and she tells you - who doesn't have a beard: you need to grow a beard.
She starts believing that pictures are haraam, and throws out your camera and you're now not allowed to take pictures of your own kids. You figure out ways to sneak in pics using the camera on your iphone, and she finds out you do that, and she gets into an argument with you and tells you she told you not to take pics of the kids.
She asks you that every year when you save up for a family vacation, you guys have to go to Saudi for Umrah. You say, how about Paris this time? She says absolutely not, it's a haraam city, you guys have to go to Saudi instead. So you begin to look for ways to travel through work to keep up with your hobby of seeing the world.
When you met her, she wore regular fashionable shalwaar kameez, had her hair done nicely, make-up on, etc. And now she just wears burqa and niqaab when she goes out, because she took some religious classes and got inspired by the clothing of her teachers, and so she believes this is the right Islamic way to do things.
When you go for jumma, she notices your shalwaar, and asks you to hike it up, so your ankles show.
How would you deal with this?
By the way, this is not hypthetical. My cousin did this to her husband. She pulled all these changes on him immediately after the marriage. She had become religious prior to the marriage, but decided to hide all this so she could continue on with the marriage. Then after marriage, she changed completely. She was inspired by classes by Farhat Hashmi.
She doesn't let her husband take pics of her kids. In fact, I'm not allowed to take pics of my niece and nephew. I once did secretly, and she pulled me aside and made me give up the picture.
This is so scary. So she pulled this right after marriage? Even before they had kids? Man must he regret not getting a divorce before they had kids.
Thanks for sharing this, it was a real eye opener.
Re: Gentleman
According to Quran, being a Muslim by default should make you a better human being.
How many times the word salaat and zakaat is mentioned in the same breadth in the Holy Quran? Both are farz. You can't choose one over the other.
Hakookul Allah and hakookul ibaad goes hand in hand.
Should, but does it? From your own experience, can you honestly say that the average Muslim is any better than the average non-Muslim? Does salaat and zakaat make one a better person? You can't enforce empathy and kindness. Prayer and charity, which usually means money and not time, which is harder to give, does not make a better person. These things will make you a better Muslim, going by the letter of the law, but one would think the spirit of the law is more important.
Which again, begs the question: is a Muslim with faults higher in God's eyes than a disbeliever who espouses the characteristics that Islam preaches but ignores the rituals?
Re: Gentleman
My two cents....
A lot of people have hidden insecurities/psychological/mental issues that they are good in covering up.
Some do it by become religious fanatics and others go to opposite end and become extremely westernized.
Re: Gentleman
Should, but does it? From your own experience, can you honestly say that the average Muslim is any better than the average non-Muslim? Does salaat and zakaat make one a better person? You can't enforce empathy and kindness. Prayer and charity, which usually means money and not time, which is harder to give, does not make a better person. These things will make you a better Muslim, going by the letter of the law, but one would think the spirit of the law is more important.
Which again, begs the question: is a Muslim with faults higher in God's eyes than a disbeliever who espouses the characteristics that Islam preaches but ignores the rituals?
Better in what sense?
Does salaat and zakaat make one a better person? How do you expect me to answer this? Well yes of course if you perform these practices by understanding the spiritual message behind it and keeping the spirit of the law alive. The whole spiritual purpose of namaaz is that it brings discipline, humility, calmness and peace into your life if done with the right intentions.
Quran is pretty clear on where disbelievers stand in Allah's eyes. Shirk is considered an unforgivable sin and shahadat is not a ritual, it's a belief. whether good non Muslims will get any special compensation on the day of judgement or not, that's beyond my knowledge and understanding and only the Almighty knows the answer to that.
I think it's an attempt to demean the religious obligations by terming them as rituals. They become rituals when you completely take spirituality out of it.
Re: Gentleman
or change karein 
J/K
but WE can watch Islamic programs on Tv… And News 
Re: Gentleman
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I think when men get religious, they make sure their family does too because they feel they have more authority over their wife and kids to dictate do's and don'ts. When women get religious, I think generally they just try a bit. Usually if the hubby doesn't want to do it, then it just ends up as nagging and they get irritated so the wife drops that and just prays for his hidayat. **
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*What I find interesting is that they put more emphasis on the hijab then they do to force the woman to pray 5 times. I think it's more like what ppl think (or see) of his wife is more important than how close she is to Islam. In this case I think they should realize that everyone is answerable for their own deeds. And they should constantly talk about religious matters and what he learnt that's new and interesting rather then forcing her to do something she doesn't want to. *
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**That being said before we got married my husband encouraged me to start praying and to do my best to pray 5 times a day. He also told me he had always wanted that his wife would do hijab. The thing is that I had always thought that that was the right thing to do and that I should be doing it but needed a final push. And though I did resent it (and him) in the beginning ( for quite a while), it was mostly a constant internal battle of I'm missing out on looking good and being more carefree about what to wear while believing that it's the right thing to do. I had all those regular arguments with him of why he wants to change me and this is how he saw me when he chose me for marriage and what not. And yes i'll do it when it comes from within me. But I did it anyway and now I'd feel bare without it. Maybe it is within me now? Or maybe it's just force of habit, I just hope that it does become from within me if it isn't.
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Ironically all this is what I had prayed for in a husband before I was married! Someone who has good iman and will help make it easier for me to follow what is right. And I am grateful that it was answered Alhumdulillah. I do have to battle with my nafs everyday though!
Re: Gentleman
Sorry for the bold text I don't know how that happened.
Re: Gentleman
I know exactly where you're coming from. I don't know too much about Farhat Hashmi and from what ive heard i'm not too big of a fan of hers. I've encountered and know people who attend her institutes and come out as very extreme (maybe a harsh word but true). They tend to go from practicing very little or somewhat to the other extreme, where they feel that the Islam they are taught is the right, and everyone who doesn't practice their way is wrong. A lot of marriages tend to have issues as well because of the drastic changes. There have also been those who completely change all of a sudden, niqaab and all sorts of restrictions, and then a few years down the road find it difficult to cope when they stop attending the lectures etc and revert back to what they used to do.
What people fail to understand is that Islam a religion based on balance. Itis a way of life and also teaches you to be moderate. You cannot adopt any extreme way of life, because eventually you'll achieve a point of unhappiness and ambiguity.
Your relative needs to understand that there has to be a balance between whatever she does. It's good that she's implementing Islam in her of life but that doesn't mean that she should drastically change. She can't impose religion on anyone, let alone her husband. Like someone mentioned, if she practices properly, he'll automatically be attracted towards it. Religion doesn't stop you from traveling, rather you're suppose to travel so you can see the creation of Allah and familiarize yourself with different cultures around you.
Same goes for men. Sometimes people just stop listening to the cultural ideologies of religion, and lecturers and just read the Quran and hadith and follow the lifestyle that they teach.
Re: Gentleman
Better in what sense?
Does salaat and zakaat make one a better person? How do you expect me to answer this? Well yes of course if you perform these practices by understanding the spiritual message behind it and keeping the spirit of the law alive. The whole spiritual purpose of namaaz is that it brings discipline, humility, calmness and peace into your life if done with the right intentions.
Quran is pretty clear on where disbelievers stand in Allah's eyes. Shirk is considered an unforgivable sin and shahadat is not a ritual, it's a belief. whether good non Muslims will get any special compensation on the day of judgement or not, that's beyond my knowledge and understanding and only the Almighty knows the answer to that.
I think it's an attempt to demean the religious obligations by terming them as rituals. They become rituals when you completely take spirituality out of it.
I meant "better", as in a kind, compassionate, fair human being, someone who does not mistreat others and abstains from harmful actions. Surely such people exist outside of Islam. What would God make of them? We don't know, but to me at least, it is a meaningful question because it leads me to view religious obligations, or rituals, in a different light.
And the word "ritual" isn't meant to demean, by its definition it is appropriate here.
Back to the original question: I'm not suggesting that everyone who neglects religious obligations faces a philosophical dilemma. In fact, most people who do so claim to be believers and are just plain lazy.