Gender is selected at the time the fetus is conceived, and it is determined by the show the couple is watching on TV at the time of the conception. Have you ever wondered why babies are born naked?
Note from Admin:
Either learn some manners or leave.
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited November 12, 2001).]
Yesterday we met some friends who have a 2 week old baby. They didn't find out beforehand the sex of the child but they were sure it was going to be a boy. I asked them why they were so sure of the sex of their child and they told me they had a scientific method.... then they explained what it was:
"When we had our first one we looked at each other and said, hey let's have a kid, it'll be a girl and we'll name her M. And sure enough it was a girl and we named her M. So then we thought a few years later, hey let's have another one. This time it'll be a boy and we'll name him G. And it was a boy and we named him G"
Good method. Very scientific!
LOL....good one Shirin!
I have to agree that the best method is to leave it in the hands of Allah.
However, for those that suffer either at the hands of others (backwards thinking elder generation) or their own psychological conceptions regarding a "complete family", it is interesting to know what is available.
I have heard of studies done that suggest that conception during a certain period of the woman's cycle, more often than not, results in a certain gender of baby. In fact, the "success ratio" has been quoted as high as 95%.
I know that doesn't beat the example that you have given....100% is a perfect score....but for distressed parents, it's probably worth investigating.
altering sex is wrong, how about predetermining for the sake of knowledge?
Helps you shop for appropriate clothing and accessories, not to mention thinking up names more seriously.
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[This message has been edited by X 1 (edited November 14, 2001).]
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[This message has been edited by X 1 (edited November 14, 2001).]
LOL…I just read NYAhmadi’s response.
I found a site that states that the gender of the child is determined by the “male” partner.
Here is exactly how is appears on the site:
The Husband Determines The Baby’s Gender
53/45. He is the One who created the two kinds, male and female,
53/46. from a tiny drop of semen.
http://www.ummah.org.uk/science/gender.htm
Why not post this all over those towns where women are tortured for producing only female babes?
[This message has been edited by Muzna (edited November 26, 2001).]
Isnt there a hadith which says
that a person who raises 3 good daughters will go to heaven ?
no such benefits for havin boys
[quote]
Originally posted by D500s:
Isnt there a hadith which says
that a person who raises 3 good daughters will go to heaven ?
no such benefits for havin boys
[/quote]
Well, no wonder. All you hae to do with guys is teach them right and wrong and then let them do whatever they want. Girls, however, are more difficult to manage. You have to teach them how to cook and be good wives to their future husbands, It also takes a lot of effort to keep reminding that they are only temporary guests in their parents' home. You have to deal with their banality and fragility, as well as moderate them every second of every day until they get married and then the husband inherits this responsibility. They also don't help the parent when the parents are old so of course, bringing up female children is a big pain in the ass. No matter how hideous they are, they also might get knocked up; they are whores by nature after all.
Men should be elevated to sainthood and we should change our already dogmatic and excessively patriarchal religion to incorporate that. Of course, since women are already treated like in-ananimate objects, nothing has to be changed in that regatrd.
Hear hear sarah. do you really think that guys have it made in our society?
[quote]
Originally posted by X Factor:
Hear hear sarah. do you really think that guys have it made in our society?
[/quote]
No. Islam put jannat under the feet of the mother, not the father. The man is forced to have responsilbity because this religion and our society are so patriarchal. AN dthe list goes on and on. Both sexes are very repressed, equalization of responsibilities and characteristics is required in order to stop parents from ever wanting to determine the sex of their child.
[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
** No. Islam put jannat under the feet of the mother, not the father. The man is forced to have responsilbity because this religion and our society are so patriarchal. AN dthe list goes on and on. Both sexes are very repressed, equalization of responsibilities and characteristics is required in order to stop parents from ever wanting to determine the sex of their child.**
[/quote]
Sarah
not everyone in India will buy your argument.
Baby sex choice kit could tip India's gender imbalance
The wealthy prefer to have boys
=============================================W. Dugger, New York Times Sunday, November 25, 2001
New Delhi -- The advertisement in The Times of India would be easy to overlook. It's small -- not quite 3 by 4 inches -- and features a plump, jolly baby with a fringe of bangs.
But the product it offers "new from the United States" -- a kit that claims to improve the odds of picking your baby's sex -- seems sinister to women's groups and government agencies here that are fighting discrimination against girls in a society with a powerful preference for sons.
A.R. Nanda, a senior civil servant in the health ministry, said Thursday that the advertisement clearly violates a 1994 law against prenatal sex determination tests. Three lawyers have filed a complaint against The Times for printing the ad, and Vibha Parthasarathi, the head of the National Commission for Women, an independent body established by Parliament, denounced the product as unethical.
"This is highly discriminatory against the girl child even before she is conceived," Parthasarathi said in a telephone interview.
The Times replied to its critics Thursday in an unsigned editorial titled "Sophie's Choice." The national newspaper, one of India's most widely circulated dailies, declared itself in the clear legally, contending that laws do not prohibit sex selection techniques used before conception.
The newspaper also defended a couple's right to use such methods, even while conceding that "they are nearly always aimed at eliminating the girl child" and noting that some doctors have described the claims of success for such techniques as dubious.
The Web site for the product says its approach takes account of factors "ranging from the frequency of male ejaculation, the composition of ******l secretions, cervical mucus, etc. . . . up to the fluid immediately surrounding the unfertilized egg."
The debate here over the ethics of using new technologies to pick the sex of a child echoes one that has been going on in the United States since the American Society for Reproductive Medicine recently endorsed the use of in vitro fertilization techniques to help parents determine the sex of their second child, so long as it's the opposite of the first child.
But the danger of such methods seems even more acute to authorities here because of new findings in India's 2001 census. The results show that the ratio of girls to boys in the richest states of the north and west has fallen sharply over the past decade, a phenomenon that most experts attribute to the rising use of ultrasound tests to determine the sex of a fetus and the abortion of females.
For example, the ratio of girls to boys 6 years old and under has declined to 793 girls per 1,000 boys from 875 in Punjab, and to 878 from 928 in Gujarat.
Many Indians fear that this growing imbalance will have serious long-term social consequences. The Supreme Court this year ordered the government to more aggressively enforce laws against sex-determination tests and sex selective abortions.
So the recurring advertisement in The Times that cheerfully proclaims "Gender selection is now a reality!" and brags that Gen-Select's product is "up to 96 percent effective!" seemed chilling to authorities here.
But Thursday, at least, couples desperate for a boy and willing to buy the kit coded blue would have been disappointed. A phone call to the toll-free number listed in the advertisement produced only a recorded voice that said the number had been disconnected.
·
[quote]
Originally posted by D500s:
Isnt there a hadith which says
that a person who raises 3 good daughters will go to heaven ?
no such benefits for havin boys
[/quote]
No Girls Please, We are Indians
PTI
New Delhi, November 25
-
Thanks to the penchant for a male child, India today has the dubious distinction of having the worst child sex ratio in the world and has emerged as one of the largest markets of sex-determination techniques' which cock a snook at the law by claiming to intervene at the "pre- -conception" stage. child of choice', the advertisement of which has raised the hackles of activists and doctors who are relentlessly working to implement the seven-year-old law that prohibits the use and publicity of any such process used as a precursor for selective sex abortions.
The latest addition to this burgeoning market is an imported kit claiming to ensure the conception of a
While the Delhi Appropriate Authority, which is responsible for implementing the Pre-Natal Diagnostic Techniques (Prevention of Misuse) Act 1994 has already moved the court against the advertiser, a fresh debate has erupted over the use of techniques that determine sex in the pre-conception stage with some doctors saying it is legal, ethical and moral for parents to exercise their `freedom of choice.'
"Intent of the Act was to stop the declining female child sex ratio, which is as low as 793 in Punjab and less than 850 in the northern states of Haryana and Delhi; it didn't matter at which stage sex-determination came," notes Dr Sabu M George, who has been campaigning against female foeticide in the country for the last 15 years.
The gains of technology have made segregation and selection (of sperms) at earlier stages, reducing guilt pangs or moral pressures that had come to be associated with infanticide or even female foeticide as a result of sonography, he says.
Even as the Supreme Court in May this year is reported to have expressed sadness over the use of modern technology to prevent the girl child from being born, a doctor in the capital spoke of the availability of sperm segregation techniques followed by artificial implantation of the fertilised eggs that are now attracting many prospective parents.
"While this is not illegal, it also is less stressful on couples opting for it," she said.
An editorial this week in the daily, which has come under fire for publishing the American company's Gen-select Kit evidently aimed at India from where telephone ordering is `toll-free', also said "the Indian law does not prohibit a person from using any technique available to pre-determine the gender of her child before conception."
"The PNDT Act," it said, "focusses on the various medical techniques which enable a person to ascertain the sex of the child right from conception, whether or not the intent is to terminate the pregnancy or not.
"Technology has, however, always been a step ahead of the law and the need to legislate on pre-selection techniques is now being debated," said the editorial.
But neither the government nor medicos like Dr Sabu or activists from a host of women organisations buy that argument.
According to Dr Rekha Joshi of the Delhi Appropriate Authority, she received a complaint against the newspaper which published the ads on November 14 and 15, from five organisations - Indian Human Rights Law Network, Shama, Jagori, Nirantar and Jan Swasthya Abhiyan - on November 20.
The Delhi Appropriate Authority on November 23 filed a complaint against the daily in a lower court here, said Dr Joshi, noting that the Advertisement is in violation of the PNDT Act.
The 1994 Act, in fact, prohibits the publication or distribution of any advertisement "in any manner regarding the facilities of pre-natal determination of sex at any genetic counselling centre, genetic laboratory, genetic clinic or any other place."
Contravention of the clause invites a jail sentence up to three years and a fine up to Rs ten thousand. There is no mention of pre-conception or post conception stages, as some doctors have sought to argue.
According to Dr Sabu, in the most traditional sense life is considered to begin from fertilisation and earlier conception was defined as fertilisation, `pre-natal' being the time period from conception till delivery or birth of the child.
Today, technology itself has redefined conception, so as to begin from implantation of the fertilised egg in the uterus, he says, pointing towards in-vitro techniques that have helped fertilisation outside the human body.
"It is the users of these techniques who are seeking to redefine the concept of pre-natal and suggesting that the law be amended to make a specific reference to them," he says noting that the law in its present form is inclusive of all such methods - the misuse of which has to be prevented.
According to him, the laws are made and are interpreted in tune with times, they can't be created every second year. The law in its present form by not making any specific reference to pre- or post-conception stages ensures that there is no misuse of the `pre-conception' techniques, the accuracy of which is doubtful.
In the Erikson's or the sperm segregation technique which has been available in India since 1981, for instance, the chances still remain 50:50, says Dr Sabu, adding that there are just a handful of laboratories in the world which could boast of sophisticated equipment to ensure a cent per cent segregation.
"In most cases across the country, after sperm segregation, the fertilisation takes place in the human body, and the pregnancy allowed to follow the complete cycle after the sonographs confirm the `child of choice' (read son)," he says.
However justified the argument of curtailing individual freedoms be, activists cite the skewed child sex ratio as a grim reminder that ground realities are far different and that all these techniques, however less the accuracy rates, have been tried to beget a son.
The moot point here, they argue, is not of individual freedom but that of a subtle way of gender discrimination that is slowly resulting in the elimination of the girl child thus violating the basic tenet of our very constitution
Bik Gaya Jo Woh Kharidar Nahi Ho Sakta
Some statistics suggest that conception closest to the woman's ovulation period tends to result in male children while conception at other times during the cyle results in female children.
(Ovulation times can be determined by monitoring the wife's temperature first thing in the morning.....a marked rise in temperature stipulates ovulation.)
How come this sort of information is not being distributed in areas where societal issues have such great impact?
Doesn't sound like a very difficult procedure......
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
**Some statistics suggest that conception closest to the woman's ovulation period tends to result in male children while conception at other times during the cyle results in female children.
(Ovulation times can be determined by monitoring the wife's temperature first thing in the morning.....a marked rise in temperature stipulates ovulation.)
How come this sort of information is not being distributed in areas where societal issues have such great impact?
Doesn't sound like a very difficult procedure......
**
[/quote]
So you condone the usage of such procedures? These kind of things just encourage inequality. Instead of couples aiming at having male children, they should educate their girls and make them work so they can actually contribute something back to society, and not just take, take, and take and become baby-producing machines.
Whether a couple wants baby girls or boys or is indifferent, is entirely their choice. Knowledge about such matters should not be hidden. I am sure all of us have seen parents with a number of girls, and who are not willing to let up till they get a boy, or vice versa. In Pakistan, it is not uncommon to see marriages end up in divorces because presumably the woman didn't succeeed in producing 'boys'. Many cultures of the world need atleast one boy in the family to carry the family name. There can be many reasons.
Muzna, I think I had put it in one of the older threads on this topic, that life of male sperms is a few hours and that of a female sperm is a couple of days. The speed of female sperm is slow (it takes two days to reach the egg), whereas a male sperm takes a couple of hours. This means that if male sperm is to fertilize the egg, the copulation should be very close to ovulation. It also means, don't engage in sex for the 2-4 days preceding the ovulation date, so as not to allow female sperms to get to the egg. And if you want a baby girl, then just reverse the process.
In addition to body temperature, many women have reported that they can fairly accurately figure out their ovulation time, by cramps, back aches or other symptoms. For women with very regular cycles, it usually works like clock-work.
And as far as I know, many outlets of Family Planning Association are set up all over Pakistan to educate folks about these things. Plus they also provide help, guidance and free-of-cost solutions to parents who feel they have enough number of kids, already.
It's interesting that the country I live in, Italy, has one of the world's lowest birth rates and a fairly high proportion (naturally achieved) of females. People have told me often that they are happy to take what comes, and the old idea of needing a male child has lost ground in most parts of the country. Many people have also told me that they prefer to have girls because they know that when they are old their daughters will care for them....
Lots to say but no time so I will stop here.
[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
**Some statistics suggest that conception closest to the woman's ovulation period tends to result in male children while conception at other times during the cyle results in female children.
(Ovulation times can be determined by monitoring the wife's temperature first thing in the morning.....a marked rise in temperature stipulates ovulation.)
How come this sort of information is not being distributed in areas where societal issues have such great impact?
Doesn't sound like a very difficult procedure......
**
[/quote]
yOUR METHOD OBVIOUSLY IS HERE SAY OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED.
WHAT IF IT IS NOT 99% SURE ,WOULD YOU PAY THE DORY OF A HINDU PARENT IN INDIA .THATS WHY ULTRASOUND DIGNOSIS FOLLOWED BY ABORTION IS SO POPULAR .CERTAINLY SUCESS RATE IS MUCH GREATER THAN TEMP METHOD OR ANY OTHER HERESAY METHOD
**Note:
Remove the CAPS from your post, and try to stick to the topic, instead of long cut-pastes**
[This message has been edited by X 1 (edited January 08, 2002).]