Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

[suhaib]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

@5Abi

Spock, I think you have bitter feelings towards Zia mostly cos he prosecuted Bhutto You are a PPP supporter, correctomundo?

i am a ppp hater and i hate zia, he destroyed my country.

[Spock]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

@Wise One

all fired up again. i dont believe he was a saint ,neither was he a fine politician. but i hold even low opinion of musharraf. I can understand where alot people would say that zia’s policies werent political but i have said before in thread and i am saying it again, he had his points whether or not you lot admit it . Besides if you are going to open a thread about some political figure be ready to have opinions swinging both way.
He was, Spock and i hope you have the sense to see this, more interested in religion than any one we have seen so far.

He used the religion card to his advantage, doesnt make him a saint, just a crooked politician hungry for power.

How many rulers can you name in Pakistan who would lay stress on nomaz?

I would rather have a ruler who is a better and an able leader than someone who can only think of stressing on Namaz.

he might be consisdered a puppet by you, what really astonished me is how is musharraf different? I mean musharraf has been labelled america’s puppet all over the place so why long live musharraf and damnation to Zia?

Musharraf is wise, he didnt fight someone else’s war, nor did he sell out any national interests.

I told you a point about alcohol and you rejected it that it was being smuggled none the less so according to you that doesnt make a difference. It does make a difference, the same difference i believe you would see happening if you look at mushes policy regarding cable. We cant stop it so legalize it. The very same argument is used by people who want to legalize marijauan.

So cable is haraam, maybe in Zia’s times, but not anymore.

So havent you seen any social decline because cable is publicized now? More indian influence for one thing.

Nope, the only difference is, kids spend more time at home watching TV rather than going outside and causing fisaad Matoo style.

Any ruler has two responsibilities , big ones. One is his moral and social stance and second political strategies. Its futile saying Zia was a capable politicians since he was a self imposed dictator, but his moral were way better than alot of politicians i have seen. PPP is absolute scum with typical feudal mentality and morals lower than sewer rat (thats not to say that bhutto wasnt an intelligent man)and i have respect for Zia for in his 11 years he had the good sense to revitalize our own culture and religion in many senses. So what ever you say about his policies i hope you can see he wasnt a villian that people are making out of him.

I have no respect for Zia, everyone remembers him as a fanatic madman who screwed the country. I can never forgive him for the Ojhri Camp Incident, having witnessed what it did and how it changed some people’s life.

[Wise_One]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

u r a lost cause

[Bagona]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

Zia's period was the darkest in pakistan's history. and please don't mention his "islamic" nature. That sob only used islam to gain power. Those who say he banned alcohol, swear on holy quraan that alcohol is out of our country?

lawlessness was on its heights. he created MQM. Public lashings, people chearing and clapping on someone's torture created a brutal mindset. voilence in the society became acceptable.

He stressed on namaz, (a personal act of a muslim, only to be facilitated by the state not imposed) and yet he failed to take any concrete steps to implement islamic concepts that are supposed to be implemented by the state. (islamic banking, providing justice, democracy, education, creating welfare state .... )

you cannot compare two people. you need to take each person one by one and evaluate. Zia was the worst thing that happened to pak, thats for sure. Now if you want to discuss musharraf, then lets open another dedicated thread for him :)

[CheGuvera]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

Assassination intrigue lives on after Pope

By Eric Margolis – Contributing Foreign Editor

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSImages2003/margolis_eric66.jpg

Last week in Italy, as Pope John Paul entered the final hours of his magnificent life, one of the 20th century’s greatest criminal mysteries burst again to life.

A special Italian investigative parliamentary commission announced it had obtained compelling evidence the Soviet KGB was indeed behind the “special task” – what the secret police called high-level assassinations – in Rome that was the 1981 attempt to kill the Pope.

The evidence was discovered by researchers in the most secret archives of Stasi, East Germany’s intelligence service.

It reportedly confirms what was long suspected: The Turk who tried to kill the Pope, Mehmet Ali Agca, was a deep-cover agent working for Bulgarian intelligence, a service that specialized in conducting killings for the KGB.

A senior Bulgarian agent, under cover of working in Rome for that nation’s airline, organized the plot and controlled Agca. The plan originated at KGB headquarters in Moscow and was mounted by a top-secret section within its elite First Chief Directorate.

This was an archetypal false-flag operation. Agca appeared to be a Turkish neo-fascist terrorist when, in fact, he was really being run by KGB via its Bulgarian cutouts. Agca admitted as much when in prison, but then recanted after his life was threatened by the Bulgarians. At the time, the U.S. and Europe shamefully failed to pursue the Pope’s attempted murder so as not to jeopardize budding entente with Moscow.

The news has prompted Italy to demand Bulgaria conduct a full-scale investigation and charge the guilty parties. The Bulgarians, anxious to get into NATO and Europe’s good graces, are in a serious jam – if they open their secret files, they will be exposed as world-class criminals.

Italian magistrates have also determined that Germany’s Stasi were involved in the plot, though to what extent has not yet been revealed. Stasi’s former head, the famed spymaster Markus Wolf, known in the trade as “the man with no face,” strongly denies any involvement, although that seems inconceivable for the East bloc’s most gifted spy chief.

Reopening the Agca case means the trail will eventually run right to Moscow, as this column has been saying for two decades. The EU, U.S. and UN must demand that Russia’s President Vladimir Putin open KGB archives and come clean about this abominable crime.

Neither the Soviet Union nor Russia have ever officially admitted the crimes of the Soviet era, including the murder of what may be as high as 18 million people from 1931-1953. Stalin told Winston Churchill that he had ordered the deaths of 10 million Ukrainians and Russians (that’s before 1938 alone, and doesn’t include the murder of millions of farmers and Catholics by Lenin during the 1920s).

Soviet-era archives need to see the light of day. Otherwise, Russia will never escape its sinister past.

Another set of files also needs to be opened. In 1988, seven years after trying to murder Pope John Paul, KGB very likely assassinated Pakistan’s leader, Zia ul-Haq, who was responsible for the Soviet defeat in the Afghan War.

**Zia’s aircraft was sabotaged and all aboard killed. Subsequent Pakistani governments failed miserably to pursue his murder investigation. When I queried former prime ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif, both shrugged off Zia’s death as better forgotten. **We must never forget these two great men who played key roles in destroying the murderous evil of Soviet communism. Once it has laid the Pope to rest, the civilized world must demand answers from Russia.

[lostsoul]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

@CheGuvera

Assassination intrigue lives on after Pope

**Zia’s aircraft was sabotaged and all aboard killed. Subsequent Pakistani governments failed miserably to pursue his murder investigation. When I queried former prime ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif, both shrugged off Zia’s death as better forgotten. **We must never forget these two great men who played key roles in destroying the murderous evil of Soviet communism. Once it has laid the Pope to rest, the civilized world must demand answers from Russia.

These subsequent Pakistani govts also include 3+ COAS who had and has all the authority to investigate the muder. Maybe they were all involved

[Spock]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

Plase find out who did it, and send him a million thanks from the nation of Pakistan.

[lostsoul]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

@Spock

Plase find out who did it, and send him a million thanks from the nation of Pakistan.

My feelings…but i am willing to contibute even 1 more millions for someone with a spare C-130 for Musharraf

[system]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

If hanging a man (Bhutto) for the wrong reason wasnt enough, Zia’s worst legacy has been the Hudood Ordinance and Blasphemy laws. One has to visit Pakistani jails to see number of female prisoners suffering because of the one-sided hudood ordinance. Have we forgotten the case of a teenager blind girl convicted of adultery simply because she could not provide “eye-Witness” testimony of four respectable muslims to prove her innocence and guilt of those who raped her. This is just one example, why do you think we have honour killings rampant in Pakistan? Cause the status of women has been reduced to a third class citizen with no rights whatsoever.

Zia used Islam to consolidate and stregthen his dictatorship and was not afraid to dish out bank loans to his cronies. Bhutto can be blamed for his stupid nationalization of institutions but Zia he was amazingly corrupt when it came to currying favors for his partners in crime or those who he wished to buy over. Evidence can be obtained by looking at Nationalized banks balance sheets in those days. Number of bad loans kept on climbing and the Sharifs and Chaudhries kept on getting richer and richer by having bank loans written off for favors done.

Some time back, Wall Street Journal published a list of Paki billionairs (US$), that list had Ijaz ul Haq as a billionare. Now can somebody please explain how come a BOA Banker (lousy at that too) suddenly become a Billionare?

Zia was the epitome of Munafiqat…may God have mercy on his soul, I for one can never forgive him…

[masterofall240]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

I'm pretty sure Zia was killed by members of my family.

[beta]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

^ 72 virgins (hoors) to you brother.

[masterofall240]

Re: Gen. Zia-ul-Haq

^ only 72? can't I have more? :D