Re: Palestinian explosives caused Gaza beach deaths
yep .. that's all we need.. They sure it wasn't from the gas they developed from the beans they had for lunch?
Re: Gaza beach attack Israel murders 6 Palestinians/~! Terrorism is wrong-Merged
**The dead were reported to include two brothers, four-year-old Hisham al-Mugrabi and eight-year-old Shaher, and their father Ashraf. **
Re: Palestinian explosives caused Gaza beach deaths
Yep, it's better to go with no investigation and just blame the Jews, like I said it's much easier.
Re: Palestinian explosives caused Gaza beach deaths
it's easy to erase mistakes when everybody will believe you and nobody will believe the accused.
you should include in your title that it is ALLEGED BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY that a landmine caused the explosion.
Re: Palestinian explosives caused Gaza beach deaths
The other thread should say "alleged by Hamas".
Re: Gaza beach attack Israel murders 6 Palestinians/~! Terrorism is wrong-Merged
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1516362,00.html
**Snipers with children in their sights **
*Palestinian civilians have been killed by the army with impunity *
It was the shooting of Asma Mughayar that swept away any lingering doubts I had about how it is the Israeli army kills so many Palestinian children and civilians. Asma, 16, and her younger brother, Ahmad, were collecting laundry from the roof of their home in the south of the Gaza Strip in May last year when they were felled by an Israeli army sniper. Neither child was armed or threatening the soldier, who fired unseen through a hole punched in the wall of a neighbouring block of flats. The army said the two were blown up by a Palestinian bomb planted to kill soldiers. The corpses offered a different account. In Rafah’s morgue, Asma lay with a single bullet hole through her temple; her 13-year-old brother had a lone shot to his forehead. There were no other injuries, certainly none consistent with a blast. Confronted with this, the army changed its account and claimed the pair were killed by a Palestinian, though there was persuasive evidence pointing to the Israeli sniper’s nest. What the military did not do was ask its soldiers why they gave a false account of the deaths or speak to the children’s parents or any other witnesses. When reporters pressed the issue, the army promised a full investigation, but a few weeks later it was quietly dropped. This has become the norm in a military that appears to value protecting itself from accountability more than living up to its claim to be the “most moral army in the world”. As Tom Hurndall’s parents noted yesterday after the conviction of an Israeli sergeant for the manslaughter of their son, the soldier was put on trial only because the British family had the resources to bring pressure to bear. But there has been no justice for the parents of hundreds of Palestinian children killed by Israeli soldiers.
According to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, the army has killed 1,722 Palestinian civilians - more than one-third of them minors - as well as 1,519 combatants, since the intifada began nearly five years ago; the comparable Israeli figures are 658 civilians killed - 17% minors - along with 309 military. The army has investigated just 90 Palestinian deaths, usually under outside pressure. Seven soldiers have been convicted: three for manslaughter, none for murder. Last month, a military court sentenced a soldier to 20 months in prison for shooting dead a Palestinian man as he adjusted his TV aerial, the longest sentence yet for killing a civilian, and less than Israeli conscientious objectors have got for refusing to serve in the army. **B’Tselem argues that a lack of accountability and rules of engagement that “encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers” have created a “culture of impunity” - a view backed by the New York-based Human Rights Watch, which last week described many army investigations of civilian killings as a “sham … that encourages soldiers to think they can literally get away with murder”. **
In southern Gaza, the killings take place in a climate that amounts to a form of terror against the population. Random fire into Rafah and Khan Yunis has claimed hundreds of lives, including five children shot as they sat at their school desks. Many others have died when the snipers must have known who was in their sights - children playing football, sitting outside home, walking back from school. Almost always “investigations” amount to asking the soldier who pulled the trigger what happened - often they claim there was a gun battle when there was none - and presenting it as fact. The military police launched an investigation into the death of Iman al-Hams last October only after soldiers went public about the circumstances in which their commander emptied his gun into the 12-year-old. He was recorded telling his men that the girl should be killed even if she were three. Colonel Pinhas Zuaretz was commander in southern Gaza two years ago when I asked him about the scale of the killing. The colonel, who rewrote the rules of engagement to permit soldiers to shoot children as young as 14, acknowledged that official versions of several killings were wrong, but justified the tactics as the price of the struggle for survival against a second Holocaust. Perhaps that view was shared by the soldier who shot dead three 15-year-old boys, Hassan Abu Zeid, Ashraf Mousa and Khaled Ghanem, as they approached the fortified border between Gaza and Egypt in April. The military said the teenagers were weapons smugglers and therefore “terrorists”, and that the soldier shot them in the legs and only killed them when they failed to stop. The account was a fabrication. The teenagers were in a “forbidden zone” but kicking a ball. Their corpses showed no evidence of wounds to disable them, only single high-calibre shots to the head or back. The army quietly admitted as much - but there would be no investigation.
Re: Gaza beach attack Israel murders/Terrorism/Isarel investigates deaths
The fact that Hamas and other terror organizations recruits children and trains them to become terrorists should concern you more.
Re: Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism/Israel investigates n denies
^
It it is the Israel army which trains it's kids to kill, and it is they that end of killing Palestinian babies and small children.
Re: Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism/Israel investigates n denies
Well we have covered the two view points haven't we Reza?
Hopefully unilaterally withdraw by Israel will hamper/stop the killings if a peace agreement before then can't be reached.
Re: Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism/Israel investigates n denies
Hamas suicide bombers only target soilders. Never a bus, or a night club, or restraunts where children could be.
Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism
The facts are that Hamas was likely behind the beach massacre... that Palestinians are in turmoil fighting amongst themselves without any help from the Jews... that the Palestinian goverment's ruling party has an official policy of not recognizing Israel and is determined to destroy it.... that rocket attacks into Israel from Palestinian lands continues unabated...
Re: Israel Inciting Palestinian Civil War
that is a fact if you believe the israeli military. however, an independant observer from the US-based Human Rights Watch has already stated the blast was caused by incoming fire.
**There have been suggestions that a mine could have been planted on the beach to deter Israeli amphibious assaults. **
**But an expert working for the Human Rights Watch said the Palestinians’ injuries were not consistent with a blast taking place beneath them. **
**“It has been suggested by some that the family was killed by a land mine, and this is patently not the case,” Mark Garlasco said. **
**“All of the evidence is pointing to a 155mm shell as having killed and injured the Palestinians here on the beach,” he said. **
“My assessment [is] that it’s likely that this was incoming artillery fire that landed on the beach and was fired by the Israelis from the north of Gaza.”
i have already posted an article stating that you are factually incorrect. the IDF is supplying weapons to Abbas supporters. Ehud Olmert has come out and stated this as a statement of fact. maybe you just don’t want to read it or you don’t want to believe, but it’s a fact.
there is a referendum on the table from Abbas that calls for recognizing israel and also for the enforcement of UN resolutions 242 and 194, both of which israel is in violation of. those of you who think israel should withdraw to 1967 borders, think again. Israel has no intention of withdrawing to 1967 borders. please read following link.
Re: Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism
The funniest thing about the Israeli-Palestinian issue is that the Arabs have turned the Palestinians into cannon fodder. Syria arms and aids Hamas and stokes the fire of terrorism. All the while Hamas terrorist leadership hides in another country.
Like Iran, Arabs would rather their population focus on the dogmatic hatred of Jews than the failure of their leadership and societies. No one talks about the advances on the Islamic world now, it's all past glories and it does not seem like it is coming back anytime soon.
Palestinians, it is becoming more and more evident, have no plans for their own future. They seem to be resigned to the position of puppets of countries like Syria.
Anyway, Israel is a strong country and has strong friends. Even China is a very close ally of Israel. Israel's friends will not allow it to fail or colapse. Palestainans can kill eachother, or do whatever they like. Because in just a few years they'll be the proud owners of a fractured country, gained by Israeli unilateralism, and then we'll see how the ummah comes to their aid. I suspect it will be similar to how they are paying for the Hamas government, not much.
Re: Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism
When you "fund" or "form" a government in another country you would want a puppet government i.e. Afghanistan, Iraq.
Re: Israel Inciting Palestinian Civil War
In one observer’s opinion (who you know nothing about him or his motives) stated something you want to belive. We all believe what we want to.
And it is factually correct that there are tremendous difference in beliefs and fighting between the factions w/ or w/o Jewish assistance and many are aiding Hamas. Believe it or not, it is a fact.
And that has nothing to do w/Hamas, the ruling party’s position, so what has that got to do with my post?
Re: Israel Inciting Palestinian Civil War
yes.....and you want to believe the israeli military instead of a US-based group called Human Rights Watch. that's very telling.
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And it is factually correct that there are tremendous difference in beliefs and fighting between the factions w/ or w/o Jewish assistance and many are aiding Hamas. Believe it or not, it is a fact.
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there are differences, just as there are differences between republicans and democrats.....the point is, those differences are being exploited by the IDF. there were negotiations occurring between Abbas and Hamas. a referendum was being composed. during this time, you may recall that Hamas was honoring a truce. that truce was being honored....no rocket attacks, no suicide bombings, no deaths of israeli civilians. and yet, despite this truce, hamas was being targeted with sanctions. now what does it say to the rest of the world when a democratically elected government is being actively undermined and put under siege? what does that say about the promise of democracy in the middle east?
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And that has nothing to do w/Hamas, the ruling party's position, so what has that got to do with my post?
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it has everything to do with the party's position. if israel is not under any obligation to follow international law, why should hamas? if israel can ignore UN resolutions, why should hamas make the first conciliatory step of recognizing israel?
Re: Gaza beach attack Israel murders 6 Palestinians/~! Terrorism is wrong-Merged
On picnicking families?
I am sure many will remember this justification of yours…
Re: Gaza beach deaths/Terrorism
This comment should be expected from someone who does not understand democracy or what it takes to build a democracy. Perhaps years of military dictatorship prevent you from seeing development. More to the point, it is true that Pakistan found "strategic depth" in Afghanistan, but the American occupation was the best thing to happen to them in decades. All the Afghans agree to that, barring the Pakistan based and backed jihadis.
Even the world at large considers Afghan more stable that Pakistan. Afghanistan, by any stretch of the imagination is a success.
But Iraqis, just like the Palestinians, are being turned into cannon fodder by the Arab/Islamic world. It seems the Arab world is more interested in hiding it's own faults and seein the US get a bloody nose than helping out the Iraqis. Now, why would a Jordanian jihadi come to liberate Iraq by killing the Shia?
Re: Gaza beach attack Israel murders 6 Palestinians/~! Terrorism is wrong-Merged
I am sure many will remember this justification of yours...
Yes, but rockets falling on families is ok right? Because Jewish kids are not as precious to their parents as Muslim children are. What of your duplicity?
Re: Israel Inciting Palestinian Civil War
Zionist supporters only believe what the Jews tell them, so you can expect them to disbelieve these independent facts. The UN Secretary General and Palestine authority (Abbas and Hamas govt) has called for an independent investigation into the beach killings. What’s the odds that Israel will agree to this?
If Israel does not agree to an independent international investigation then that is further proof that of it’s guilt.