Re: Gay muslims
i think some pakistanis here are so angry and bursting bcs some gay like activity has been reportedly happening in pakistan amongst straight people..
Re: Gay muslims
I think as a qaum we have a tendency to become over zealous to avoid being labeled as a softie or a sympathizer.. so you'll see people going the extra mile to bash something society especially hates, but let other things slide... thats hypocrisy and some double standards.
of course having a gay relationship is a major sin, but so is drinking and pre-marital sex. why don't we curse and severely admonish in the same manner the guys and girls who do those things? we should.
it's because people who are tolerant of drinking, adultery/pre-marital sex would shudder at the fact that they're in the same "group" as someone who's gay. guess what, you are (doing gunnah-e-kabeera). instead of being a hypocrite, just accept that fact.. and if it scares you (as it should) then it's time for some soul searching.
FBI: ps. i dunt know where some people get their intellect from, esp muslims .. cant they bloody think for themselves ..that islam forbids such acts and then they come out with these terms 'gay muslims' what is wrong with these people .. one reason i think of is that is the western influence .. where these gorey want to destroy islam and turn everyone into thmeselves like low lifes, no religion, no belief, no izzat no hayaa etc ..and funny enough .. the ignorant - ignorant of Islamis Knowledge .. just follw what the west says ..
According to you guys if someone's gay they can't be a Muslim. What about people who drink and gamble? These activities are forbidden in Islam too. Are such individuals kafirs too? If yes, why don't we react in the same way towards these people? Why dont we show equal hatred? What about men who sleep around with various women before marriage unko to maa baap ghar se nahin nikalte. Why? Is it ok to go against Islam there? When parents find out about their son's premarital sexual activites they tend to respond by saying " shadi kara do theek ho jai ga". What's that supposed to mean? Gay larkay ki bhi larkay se kara do phir. Why do desis have to have double standards.
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Its good to keep some facts straight before one comes out bish bashing but without any ground.
When u say GAY, its not just an act, like adultery or robbery, or gambling, or whatever... its an entirely different route altogether. I would recommend reading on the subject before actually stating the obvious.
Re: Gay muslims
^^Allah ne ju hal Loot ilahesalam ki qaom ka kiya na woh kisi sharabi qaom ka nahi so based upon that we are strict to gays:p
Re: Gay muslims
gay muslims? isnt that a contradiction? there is no room for homosexuality in islam
Re: Gay muslims
^^ thas wht i said .. its just some peple cant get that in their heads cos homosexuality is more overwhelming in their minds :@:
When u say GAY, its not just an act, like adultery or robbery, or gambling, or whatever... its an entirely different route altogether.
good point.. but I don't think the problem is anyone belittling that fact.. the problem is that someone who drinks is also in a "route", a lifestyle and habit of a major sin.. same goes for folks in pre-marital relationships and zina. but you don't see most folks being repulsed at guys and girls who have sex outside marriage or social drinkers. thats why I put my view above, that it seems to me because a lot of folks tolerate those acts because they do it themselves.. and are not willing to face the music.
allah knows everything
therefore if ppl really could not help being gay and they cud not change it...allah would have known that and anything that cannot be helped or changed is from allah... and Allah wud not have made it haraam because if u cant help somehting it means it is natural ...homosexuality is clearly not somehting that falls in the category of being natural..iof it was natural than homosexuals would be able to procreate....which they are clealry not able to do
therefore
i believe that homosexuals can change the way they are, the way they feel and the way they think...they just brainwash themselves that they were born that way and they cannot help it .....which makes it hard for them to change
it is wrong to get a gay person married to a woman if u do not tell the woman that the guy is gay ...and it may not ruin two lives it may actually save the one that has lost his way
as for ur quesiton abt do we have to criticize them...? maybe that is not the best route to take..i think ppl do it because (1) it is unacceptable in our religion and culture and (2) we may feel like if we criticize enough it may bring abiut a desire in the person to change and become hetrosexual
**
"Is it fair to be someone who you are not?" **
if u truly cud not help being homosexual it wud be unfair.,..but since i believe that u CAN in fact help it..then it is not unfair to try to get someone who is homosexual to change
"They are human beings too and they have every right to live their life the way they want to. Please do not treat them like dogs"
it is the right of the families of homosexuals to intervene...but u are right others have no right to judge them...allah has not given us the right to judge our fellow man no matter what...even if we consider them to not be muslim we have no right to treat them like dogs...
however it is ok if someone does not wish to socialize with or sit by someone who is homosexual..why is it ok? because its their choice just like someone may not want to socialize with alcoholics or adulterers... it doesnt mean that u hate the ppl doing such things it just means u do not like the act
Islam condemns homosexuality as most of us are aware of but my question is, can a person really change the way they are? Can they change the way they feel? How can a parent disown their child because they're not straight. One of my English friend is gay and his mom was fine with it. He was upset about how she would feel and the fact that he would be letting her down. I quote what she said to him " You are my son and I still love you no matter what". Why can't we accept that you cannot force yourself to like someone? Isn't it wrong to get a gay person to marry a woman? You ruin 2 peoples lives. Do we have to constantly criticise peoples sexual orientation?Is it fair to be someone who you are not?
Is the reason for desi people ridiculing such members of our society a result of lack of tolerance, lack of education or plain ignorance? They are human beings too and they have every right to live their life the way they want to. Please do not treat them like dogs :)
Thanks
"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81
while alcoholism gambalism etc are considered transgressions i doubt they are considered transgressing beyond bounds....have u ever heard of the concept of lesser sins and greater sins?
the consequence for lying cannot and will not be the same as the consequence for murdering someone
allah will punish u for lying but it wont be as severe as killing somone...
or another example wud be ....if u do not pray five times a day u may still be forgiven but shirk and biddat will not be forgiven
homosexuality is one of the greater sins and unforgiveable one if one not only lives as a homosexual but dies as one....
According to you guys if someone's gay they can't be a Muslim. What about people who drink and gamble? These activities are forbidden in Islam too. Are such individuals kafirs too? If yes, why don't we react in the same way towards these people? Why dont we show equal hatred? What about men who sleep around with various women before marriage unko to maa baap ghar se nahin nikalte. Why? Is it ok to go against Islam there? When parents find out about their son's premarital sexual activites they tend to respond by saying " shadi kara do theek ho jai ga". What's that supposed to mean? Gay larkay ki bhi larkay se kara do phir. Why do desis have to have double standards.
Re: Gay muslims
^:D baqol tariq Aziz,
pehlan perhi namaz isha di
fer jam sharab de peety:hehe:
[quote=“mama_ki_dua, post:876, topic:194874”]
This may be a controversial and a sensitive topic for some people. However, I do not apologise for that as this is something that does exist. Please do not jump to conclusions and save your words for until you’ve actually seen the documentary.
I’ve been watching a documentary which is the inspiration of this thread. I enclose the link
Don’t worry we have lot of gays in Pakistan and some are very famous and even every body respecting them and living with them. They had married and have kids but still living like a gay.
So Paksitani’s can now be so called ‘Broad Mind’
Re: Gay muslims
Nosherwan's first post in this thread made the most sense. Unfortunately, muslims have a long history of throwing other muslims out of islam and are very quick to do it. Nosherwan did not say it was alright to be gay(i.e. have intercourse or relations with the same sex). What he said was that although it is a major sin, it doesn't give anyone the licence to label a person who commits such an act a non-muslim anymore than a person who commits zina or who drinks or commits other major sins.
If you disagree, then you are saying that anyone who commits a major sin is a non-muslim. If that is your stance then you have to back it up.
He also made a distinction between having feelings towards the same sex and acting upon them. Even if the contemporary argument is accepted that some people are attracted to their own sex, it is against the commandments of Allah to act upon such feelings. That is a very sensible approach so I'm not sure why people are so hyper.
It should also be understood that the whole idea of sawab (reward) in the islamic terminology is based on having the ability/desire to do something and still refraining from it. For example, a child is not rewarded for refraining from zina because he doesn't have the ability to commit it. A blind is not rewarded for refraining from looking at the opposit sex. It is commendable to refrain from zina for the sake of Allah even though one has the ability and a strong desire for sex.
Hahas, that wasn’t mine but MKD’s quote… and i got quoted for her quote for no reason at all…
Re: Gay muslims
Dajjal's temptations are waiting for us on every corner, Its a test between us and Allah on how we react to those temptations
Re: Gay muslims
^ dajjal kahan say aagaya abhi say lol.. you mean shaitan?
Re: Gay muslims
I think Nosherwans posts have been pretty sensible and correct or at least I agree with him.
Its quite important to understand the differences between Kafir and Fasiq. Simply put you are committing Kufr when you deny the truth of something. So the correct translation for Kafir is Disbeliever. So if one denies that being gay or lebo is not a sin, then that person is a Kafir and hence not muslim anymore as long as he persists in his belief. If he changes his belief and accepts that it is a sin, you cannot label the person as a Kafir.
As for Prophet Lut AS nation being destroyed, if you actually read Quran and ponder about it. All nations of prophets before the Prophet SAW were destroyed for sins they were told to abstain from and they refused to do so. Take Prophet Shuyab AS nation, it was simply destroyed for corruption and dishonesty. Should we take that as an example for setting them against Kufr. Should then we cast out the dishonest and corrupt among us as non-muslims. We probably would be left with 10% muslims of what strength we are now.
Having feelings is different from engaging those feelings. And Yes exhibiting gay behavior is forbidden and should be punishable. No muslim can be held accountable for judgement for merely feeling something. Only actions are punishable not intentions. Our intentions will be judged by Allah SWT. If a muslim gets into an altercation and feels like murdering the other person yet never does it, does not make him accountable for murder. Same goes for all other sins. To deny something is a sin, which is, is where do you exit belief and enter into disbelief.
Re: Gay muslims
Thankyou USResident and chacha_ghalib. :)
while alcoholism gambalism etc are considered transgressions i doubt they are considered transgressing beyond bounds....have u ever heard of the concept of lesser sins and greater sins?
the consequence for lying cannot and will not be the same as the consequence for murdering someone
allah will punish u for lying but it wont be as severe as killing somone...
or another example wud be ....if u do not pray five times a day u may still be forgiven but shirk and biddat will not be forgiven
homosexuality is one of the greater sins and unforgiveable one if one not only lives as a homosexual but dies as one....
Like USResident mentioned, the people of Madyan to who the Prophet Shoaib PBUH was sent were also destroyed but not for homo-sex, their sin was cheating people through dishonest weights and measures...
Would you also class cheats/thieves as outside the fold of Islam because of their sin?
The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were Non-Muslim because they rejected the Prophet Lot PBUH's message and they wanted to have sex with the Angels who came to visit him. Yes homo-sex was one of the main reasons for their destruction but they also had many other sins to their credit including denial of the Truth and rape of men...
I'm not saying homo-sex is permissible. I agree with you that homo-sex is a big sin but a sin doesn't neccesarily mean one is not a Muslim anymore...
...Calling a Muslim person a Non-Muslim no matter how sinful they are is a very big sin, it comes back on you and that is not just my opnion it's from the Sunnah/Ahadith.
People who claim homo-sex is allowed in Islam are Non-Muslims regardless of whether they engage in homo-sex themselves or not but just having homo-sex whilst acknowledging it is wrong and sinful does not make anyone a Non-Muslim, just a Sinner.
It is upto Allah Ta'aala to punish the sinful Muslims or to pardon them out of His Grace as God says in the Quran (intrepretation of the meaning):
"Allah will not forgive any the association of anything with Him; but He will forgive any lesser offense to whomsoever He chooses" [Intrepretation of the meaning of the Noble Quran 4:47, 115]
All Believers even the sinful ones, even those who have an atoms weight of Faith in their hearts will one day be brough out of Hell on account of that Faith, their Faith will be their Salvation:
“...so the one whose heart contains a barley grains weight, and a wheat grains weight, and an atoms weight of faith will be removed from Hell.” (Hadith: Agreed Upon)
That's not a license to sin because Allah might still punish you for your sins before redemption but it's to show that there is always hope for those that believe.
It's such a shame that those who claim homosexuality is allowed are annulling their Islam/Iman, had they just just remained Sinners atleast there would be some hope for them..
Re: Gay muslims
Homosexuality is nothing more than a genetic deformity. Like being a rapist, child molestor and serial murder....
....wait what?