This may be a controversial and a sensitive topic for some people. However, I do not apologise for that as this is something that does exist. Please do not jump to conclusions and save your words for until you’ve actually seen the documentary.
I’ve been watching a documentary which is the inspiration of this thread. I enclose the link
Re: Gay muslims
My question is, if homosexuality is openly condemned and forbidden in Islam and Quran, isn't there a reason for it? If Allah swt himself was creating people this way, why would He declare it as haraam? And it's not like some aalims have predicted this or gotten it from hadiths, it is clearly cited in the Quran for everyone to read and understand.
Having said all that, while I do support what our religion says, I still stay neutral with such people because after all, they are humans and should be treated like anyone else. I have worked with and have friends who are gay/bi/whatever, and I don't go around humiliating them or don't speak to them because of who they are. I talk to them normally like I do with other friends because I'm noone to judge. I do find it very uncomfortable when some people get all loud, boistorous, and go OTT with their sexual talks but a couple of my gay friends are the nicest people, and I have known them for 7+ years now. They don't go around flaunting they like the same sex, they keep it on the downlow. Being gay doesn't mean they are evil, it's their personal life which they will be answerable for on the day of judgement just like everyone else.
Re: Gay muslims
pareezay, islam condemns many other things, drinking, adultery, gambling, premarital sex. So the same question stands, if allah himself was creating people with tendencies for stuff, then why would he declare that as haram.
I agree with your point that its between them and god, and while we may or may not accept or support it, it is not civilized to ridicule them. Sadly in desi society among others, people get ridiculed for anything from skin colour to weight etc. good words..
Re: Gay muslims
That's exactly my question- See I always thought that people are not born with addictions and they are not born gay. These are things which they 'take up' in the world, or choose to be associated with. That's why the concept of 'good and bad', 'heaven and hell' and the 'angels and shaitaan' exist. We Muslims have Quran as guidance to differenciate between the two and follow the right path. We have stories of the Prophets, and Prophet Muhammad SAW to refer to.
That's why when I hear things like, gays are born this way, it makes me wonder why Allah swt will clearly state it as forbidden (Hazrat Lut's example) in the Quran when He himself is creating man like that? It's something that still confuses me.
Re: Gay muslims
^ If its a mental/psychological abnormality (and I am using the word 'abnomrality' only in relative terms, not in degrading way) then one would not be committing a sin (as yo said that God made him that way). If one picks that lifestyle out of choice, then he/she will be judged.
Re: Gay muslims
It reminds me of a dialogue from bruce almighty, where the god tells bruce only not to meddle with anyone's free will. Now why if Allah made us all then to differenciate between right and wrong can then challenge every deed and further confuse the very concept of our being. Coming back to the point, if someone willingly chooses to transgress Allah's orders as did the nation of sodom, we believe they rightly deserved then His wrath. If someone is born homo i still believe thats correctable since it is not natural. It is simply an un natural behaviour, which can be cured why not. Its only since it is mostly nurtured in favourable atmosphere that it becomes an inevitable course of life for those who chose to go like that. Again, that it is between them and God is really not a commendable attitude. We, as a religion share a responsibility of the welfare and correction of collective being. Otherwise Allah would have sent His message to each of us individually.
Re: Gay muslims
first there was terrorist Muslims, now gay Muslims..
this is "yahoodi" sazish .. i am telling ya...
i have no problems with gay men
means more women for wolves like me :D
Firstly there are no labels like gay, lesbian or bisexual in Islam. Who we have sex with or who we find sexually attractive is not made a matter of identity.
Secondly Islam does not condemn anyone because of their feelings. If a male finds other males attractive then that in itself is not sinful because he has no control over those feelings, but what is sinful is to consumate those feelings (i.e. have sex with another male).
People with homosexual feelings should be counselled and supported, condeming them for their feelings is not Islamic, Islam teaches us to hate the illness not the ill.
The Islamic option for a male with sexual inclinations towards other males would be to live a celibate life if he is only attracted to fellow males (untill/if he is cured), or to marry a woman if he is attracted to both males and females.
This life is a test and different people are tested differently, some with illness, some with poverty, some with a disability etc.
We're humans not animals and that is why God has given us the intellect to judge between right and wrong and moral and immoral... We were not created for hedonism, we have to follow a set of rules to be succesful in the hereafter, this life is only temporary but the life to come is eternal...
Some people are born with psychopathic tendencies to murder but that doesn't make it right for them to murder....
...Other people are incestuals, paedophiles, beastialists, nacropheiliacs and they say they have no control over their feelings but that doesn't mean it would be morally right for them to act upon their feelings.
Having said all that a Muslim who does engage in homosexual sex does not become a Kafir (Non-Muslim), rather they become a sinner, they might be sinful but they are still Muslim just like the sinful Muslims who commit heterosexual fornication or drink alcohol...
...If however somebody declares homosexual sex to be Halaal then they have indeed become Kaafir, regardless of whether they themselves engage in that sin or not and that applies to any sin because declaring the Haraam to be Halaal and vice versa annuls ones Islam.
Homosexual sex is forbidden in most major world religions including Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Even the eastern religions such as Buddhism, Sikhism and Hinduism consider it sexual misconduct.
Re: Gay muslims
Just for the records I myself have bisexual feelings but I wouldn't have sex with another male because it's Haraam.
I believe we're not animals, we can't just do as we please, can't follow our whims and desires and live a hednistic lifestyle, we need God to tell us right from wrong..
Re: Gay muslims
traditionally, in the west you get ''sissy'' types of homos and ''tom boy'' lesbos but in the east(south asia) you get seemingly normal men par taking in homosexual behaviour (subsitute for women?)
so it may just be a cultural mental illness (in very recent studies doctors have concluded it as an illness)
afaik homosexual muslim is an oxymoron. its one or the other*
*its also unclear where 'unpracticing' muslims fit in as muslims
afaik homosexual muslim is an oxymoron. its one or the other*
Dude, we're not here to judge, but homosexuality is a sin that doesn't take one outside the folds of Islam. So you can be a homosexual muslim, or an alcoholic muslim, or backbiting muslim. The problem is practicing these things and putting yourself in jeopardy on the day of judgement.
Like a politician once said, you can be gay, just don't have gay sex. That's what Muslims have to do. It's a test for homosexuals in this life. If they are capable of controlling their desires, meaning doing jihad throughout their lives, then there will be a huge reward for them in the hereafter.
Re: Gay muslims
Calling all those things legal, that is vorbidden in Islam.. this is very valid as we are heading to the great signs of Qiyamah. So those who think this is so said "social right" then they are very wrong at their point... as Religion is NOT a toy to play with but a path if you like to obey or forget it and dont call yourself Muslim, Christian or etc.
I know there are many other sins that we should try to find out in ourselves and should stop it rather than accepting other sins as humane.
Why you dont call them just GAY and why GAY Muslims?
homosexuality is "one of Major sin", that will never be forbidden, as it is naratted in Quran too.
Secondly Islam does not condemn anyone because of their feelings. If a male finds other males attractive then that in itself is not sinful because he has no control over those feelings, but what is sinful is to consumate those feelings (i.e. have sex with another male).
Having said all that a Muslim who does engage in homosexual sex does not become a Kafir (Non-Muslim), rather they become a sinner, they might be sinful but they are still Muslim just like the sinful Muslims who commit heterosexual fornication or drink alcohol...
well said, its different test for different people, and some people's test is to resist acting upon temptation for opposite sex and for some it is to resist acting upon temptation for same sex. etc etc
Re: Gay muslims
stop worrying about other's sinful life guys, and start working towards getting a place in jannah.
homosexuality exist, and it exists everywhere as it existed in biblical times. and the people who were involved also had a catastrophic end which is also not something hidden. now it is up to us to acknowledge the facts and ask for mercy or choose to ignore it.
Peace :)
Calling all those things legal, that is vorbidden in Islam.. this is very valid as we are heading to the great signs of Qiyamah. So those who think this is so said "social right" then they are very wrong at their point... as Religion is NOT a toy to play with but a path if you like to obey or forget it and dont call yourself Muslim, Christian or etc.
I know there are many other sins that we should try to find out in ourselves and should stop it rather than accepting other sins as humane.
Why you dont call them just GAY and why GAY Muslims?
homosexuality is "one of Major sin", that will never be forbidden, as it is naratted in Quran too.
Seems like you did not read my initial post properly. I'll explain it to you again :) I asked people not to jump to conclusions, watch the documentary ( link has been provided) and then make a statement.
The video and my thread is about Muslims who are GAY and Muslim peoples attitudes towards them. I hope you understood this time round if not I can explain in urdu.
Shukria :)
Re: Gay muslims
one word: blonde!
So you are concluding that its between them and ALLAh SWT right and it means that we shouldn’t call robbers or theives a theive we should leave them alone and leave it to ALLAH as its between them and ALLAH :aq: No one is born robber,cheat, thieve or drug dealer its their choice to become a bad person so why we have laws for those people :aq:
Firstly there are no labels like gay, lesbian or bisexual in Islam. Who we have sex with or who we find sexually attractive is not made a matter of identity.
Secondly Islam does not condemn anyone because of their feelings. If a male finds other males attractive then that in itself is not sinful because he has no control over those feelings, but what is sinful is to consumate those feelings (i.e. have sex with another male).
People with homosexual feelings should be counselled and supported, condeming them for their feelings is not Islamic, Islam teaches us to hate the illness not the ill.
The Islamic option for a male with sexual inclinations towards other males would be to live a celibate life if he is only attracted to fellow males (untill/if he is cured), or to marry a woman if he is attracted to both males and females.
This life is a test and different people are tested differently, some with illness, some with poverty, some with a disability etc.
We're humans not animals and that is why God has given us the intellect to judge between right and wrong and moral and immoral... We were not created for hedonism, we have to follow a set of rules to be succesful in the hereafter, this life is only temporary but the life to come is eternal...
Some people are born with psychopathic tendencies to murder but that doesn't make it right for them to murder....
...Other people are incestuals, paedophiles, beastialists, nacropheiliacs and they say they have no control over their feelings but that doesn't mean it would be morally right for them to act upon their feelings.
Having said all that a Muslim who does engage in homosexual sex does not become a Kafir (Non-Muslim), rather they become a sinner, they might be sinful but they are still Muslim just like the sinful Muslims who commit heterosexual fornication or drink alcohol...
...If however somebody declares homosexual sex to be Halaal then they have indeed become Kaafir, regardless of whether they themselves engage in that sin or not and that applies to any sin because declaring the Haraam to be Halaal and vice versa annuls ones Islam.
Homosexual sex is forbidden in most major world religions including Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Even the eastern religions such as Buddhism, Sikhism and Hinduism consider it sexual misconduct.
very well said .... we should try to help and support them not insult.
Yes !
Ok. I will not treat them like dogs.
mention not :flower2:
Now Am I Allowed to post my observation + clinical study of these sketchy and strange sexual orientaion claims . thanks
----------------x--------- from here on, Moderaters, if you may wish , you can divide posts as and where required. :flower1:
[quote=mama ki dua]
I’ve been watching a documentary which is the inspiration of this thread. I enclose the link
I watched the video and found it touching, but a bit confusing :konfused:
Time for a short tea break. Please see my detailed elaboration in next post shortly . thanks :chai: