Gay Bashing.....

]Necrophilia among ducks ruffles research feathers
The strange case of the homosexual necrophiliac duck pushed out the boundaries of knowledge in a rather improbable way when it was recorded by Dutch researcher Kees Moeliker.

It may have ruffled a few feathers, but it earned him the coveted Ig Nobel prize for biology awarded for improbable research, and next week he will be recounting his findings to audiences on the Ig Nobel tour.

Ducks behave pretty badly, it seems. It is not so much that up to one in 10 of mallard couples are homosexual - no one would raise an eyebrow in the liberal Netherlands - but they regularly indulge in “attempted rape flights” when they pursue other ducks with a view to forcible mating. “Rape is a normal reproductive strategy in mallards,” explains Mr Moeliker.

As he recounts in his seminal paper, The first case of homosexual necrophilia in the mallard anas platyrhynchos, he was in his office in the Natuurmuseum Rotterdam, when he was alerted by a bang to the fact a bird had crashed into the glass facade of the building. "I went downstairs immediately to see if the window was damaged, and saw a drake mallard (anas platyrhynchos) lying motionless on its belly in the sand, two metres outside the facade. The unfortunate duck apparently had hit the building in full flight at a height of about three metres from the ground. Next to the obviously dead duck, another male mallard (in full adult plumage without any visible traces of moult) was present. He forcibly picked into the back, the base of the bill and mostly into the back of the head of the dead mallard for about two minutes, then mounted the corpse and started to copulate, with great force, almost continuously picking the side of the head.
“Rather startled, I watched this scene from close quarters behind the window until 19.10 hours during which time (75 minutes) I made some photographs and the mallard almost continuously copulated his dead congener. He dismounted only twice, stayed near the dead duck and picked the neck and the side of the head before mounting again. The first break (at 18.29 hours) lasted three minutes and the second break (at 18.45 hours) lasted less than a minute. At 19.12 hours, I disturbed this cruel scene. The necrophilic mallard only reluctantly left his ‘mate’: when I had approached him to about five metres, he did not fly away but simply walked off a few metres, weakly uttering a series of two-note ‘raeb-raeb’ calls (the ‘conversation-call’ of Lorentz 1953). I secured the dead duck and left the museum at 19.25 hours. The mallard was still present at the site, calling ‘raeb-raeb’ and apparently looking for his victim (who, by then, was in the freezer).”

Mr Moeliker suggests the pair were engaged in a rape flight attempt. “When one died the other one just went for it and didn’t get any negative feedback - well, didn’t get any feedback,” he said.

His findings have provoked a lot of interest - especially in for some reason - but no other recorded cases of duck necrophilia. However, Mr Moeliker was informed of an American case involving a squirrel and a dead partner, although in this case it is not known whether the necrophilia observed was homosexual or not as the victim had been run over by a truck shortly before the incident.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

Errrr, where among this mess (not your fault, incompatibe, I think), was the link or the name of the magazine?

Re: Gay Bashing.....

Ive just been told about that, I copied and pasted it from the "guardian Unlimited" site on 8th of March.

Its not the kind of thing I would normally post but we tend to have lots of people here on this forum who feel that it is ok to attack /demonise people who live a lifestyle which is not compatible with THEIR belief system.

this is just something to show that birdies and bee's are at it too.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

well the birdies and bees are actually at necrophilia, which is having sex with dead birdies and bees. you're free to place homosexuality at the same level if you want, cause that seems to be the only implication here. homosexuality occurs in nature, so does necrophilia.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

Homosexuality is not a norm nor is it normal in nature. If it is normal in nature among animals would be considered a genetic trait and not one dealing with environment. If it is genetic that means people are born gay and that every human being has a dominant and recessive gay gene. You me Everybody (You gotta love the blues brothers).

Re: Gay Bashing.....

A copy paste from my reply to a similar thread

Let me shed some light in here..

About homosexuality: There has been evidence of a biological reason behind the sexual orientation. The PET scans show a marked difference in the anterior hypothalamus(area of brain governing sexuality) of homosexual males than hetro males. To add to that the anterior commissure is larger in homosexuals than the straight people. And it has been found homosexuality may have genetic origins too. Coz twins (even the ones seperated at birth) have more probabilty of sharing the same sexual orientation that unrelated people.

And recent studies measure homosexuality in terms of a continuum.. Some ppl are exclusively hetro, some ppl are exclusively homo and others lie somewhere in between.

Really!

Re: Gay Bashing.....

If it is a genetic trait that means there is a gene which can be removed from our genome correct? Btw i would like to see the studies for this information. To state that homosexuality is genetic is a very dangerous thing to say.

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Ravage you are absolutly right................about the necro, but it did mention the 1 in ten mallards in norway.

When I initially read this I thought it was funny, but then I thought about it and thought it was terribly sad that this duck had been chased by another who was trying to rape it, but the poor thing managed to get itself killed instead.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

actually i dont see why homosexuality being genetic or existing elsewhere in nature has any implication on its culpability. it isnt an irresistable tendency for one. people have genetic tendencies towards murder. that makes their crime more understandable, not less reprehensible.

Re: Gay Bashing…

CM: here ya go!

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f97/projects97/Newman.html

Excerpt from the link above…

One of the most influential studies on the genetics of homosexuality was done by Dean Hamer and his co-workers at the National Cancer Institute in Washington DC (1993). Hamer’s research involved studying thirty-two pairs of brothers who were either “exclusively or mostly” homosexual. None of the sets of brothers were related. Of the thirty-two pairs, Hamer and his colleagues found that two-thirds of them (twenty-two of the sets of brothers) shared the same type of genetic material. This strongly supports the hypothesis that there is an existing gene that influences homosexuality (4). Hamer then looked closely at the DNA of these gay brothers to try and find the region of the X chromosome (since the earlier research suggested that the gene was passed down maternally) that most of the homosexual brothers shared. He discovered that homosexual brothers have a much higher likelihood of inheriting the same genetic sequence on the region of the X chromosome identified by Xq28, than heterosexual brothers of the same gay men. Keep in mind though, that this is just a region of the X chromosome, not a specific gene. Although researchers are hopeful, a single gene has not yet been identified (7).

Re: Gay Bashing.....

...This study examined the same gene locus as the Hamer study, but found that it had no influence on homosexuality (8). As you can see, the results on this topic are still extremely varied and reasonably new, so it is difficult to come to any lasting conclusion.

To finish off what you have quoted. They have defined a region which means it is more than one gene and they have not defined a specific gene at all. So how can it be considered genetic?

They have not defined a pattern nor a specific formula. Plus that experiment itself is flawed as I don't read anything about a control group. Brothers will have similar genetic make up. Also if the race and etnicity of the people is the same in the group that could explain the reason for similar genetic patterns.

If they were black, white, green and orange and had similar DNA patterns in the region i would be interested to see more on it.

Ravage i see this excuse of it being genetic as a reason to give people leeway in what they do. I am gay its not my fault. I am a murder its not my fault its my genes.

Re: Gay Bashing…

exactly.

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Yeah, maybe the student forgot to mention the control group in his paper. Without a control group I don't think an experiment would get a green light from whomever they need to do such studies.

And furthermore... (excerpt from the same link)

Other studies have been conducted that look at twin brothers rather than brothers of different ages. Bailey and Pillard (1991) did a study of twins that determined a Ò52% concordance of homosexuality in monozygotic twins, 22% for dizygotic twins, and 11% for adoptive brothers of homosexual men (8). These results, like Hamer's, provide further support for the claim that homosexuality is genetically linked. Studies very similar to the Bailey and Pillard study have been done both with female homosexual siblings and siblings of both sexes. The results for both of these studies were only off from Bailey and PillardÕs by a few percentage points. Putting all of these results together, it seems like genetics are at least 50% accountable for determining a personÕs sexual orientation (8).

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CB disagree completely. Science is never exact and never will be. There is no mention of any control groups in any of these papers. Ok the student who wrote this is an idiot. Twins have nearly a 90% similar genome. So if there if there is 52% concordance of homosexuality it is based on what 90% of the genes? Great work. First it was one region, now it may be 90% of the average genome.

Btw this study should be rather simple. Genes are dominant or recessive. You want to study if it is genetic, take gay men. Take heterosexual men and compare their genes. Find what is missing and there you got your gay gene. Odd they haven't seemed to have found it yet.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

Okay, let's set aside the genetic aspect of it, but what about the difference in brain structures? In those studies I believe they had a control group.

I am not saying it has been proven and it's the ultimate fact, but there is some evidence which contradicts the notion of homosexuality being all nurture and no nature. I would rather believe science than any tom dick and harry.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

And science said the world was flat. Science also said there is no life on mars where there might well be. I have yet to see a study the links a specific gene or a genome structure to homosexuality. Till they do that its not genetic. For it to be genetic there has to be a gene responsible for it.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

CM - brief correction, religion said the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. Science proved it wrong.

Myself - I believe in it being a combination of the two.

Ok, bowing out now.

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But it very well could be biological. And science itself found out world wasn't flat and was rather spherical, and evidence of life on mars was again collected by science.. so you see, those weren't relevations that came upon holy men, it was all science. So I would rather believe science..

And was it really science.. Earth being flat and all? Papers were written on the topic? Or was it old grandma's tale..? Like a misconception developed between the commoners?

Re: Gay Bashing.....

see heres the thing i dont get. on the one end you're citing 'indications' of a 'possible' gene influencing gender selection by upto 50%, on the other hand when you're saying homosexuality is 'biological' you're completely discounting personal choice and nurture.

Re: Gay Bashing.....

Ravage: There has been evidence of a biological origin. Nurture does play a part in amplifying the effect. Like certain environmental conditions are to be met for the traits to show up(read it long back in my psychology book). And I am not the one who is doing the study. I am just trying to reason based on these findings. Excuse me for not jumping on the gay-bashing bandwagon.

Instead of just speculations we have some evidence of some kind which could lead to solid facts in the future. People come here, making statements like "gays are what they are by their own choice" , and stuff based on nothing but mere prejudice. I think what I am doing is a little better than that.