No... If India isnt in this, it means Pakistan increases its influence in the region and builds strategic allies at Indias expense...
Its common sense. Economic cooperation with Iran for example brings us closer to the Iranians... India misses out.
Every country looks to out do its neighbors. India cringes at the very thought of any country meddling in places like Nepal or Sri Lanka which India consider within its sphere of influence...
Pakistan guaranteed safety and wanted India to a part of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline...it was India that opted out of the alliance looking for the nuclear deal.
"Building allies at Indias expense"...LOL , what a great strategist you are???!!!!.....I know people of your kind....people like you will prefer to lose the world cup final against any country but will never agree on losing prelim match against India........people like you are more than happy to damage pakistan as long as your actions are damaging or hurting India as well..LOL
^^^Strategic location means profit for Pakistan...but that has not been the case so far for Pakistan.......and that is primarily becoz till now decision makers in pakistan dont mind damaging pakistan as long as their actions are damaging India
^^^Strategic location means profit for Pakistan...but that has not been the case so far for Pakistan.......and that is primarily becoz till now decision makers in pakistan dont mind damaging pakistan as long as their actions are damaging India
That is so true.
in fact,
Many Indian planners are doing the same thing. They do things that hurt India, but they still do it to make sure Pakistan gets hurt in the process.
This is nothing new. From ancient times, the rajas and nawabs in the subcontinent have done this to each other,
And shamefully,
They have formed alliances with outsiders aka Mogals, British, US, and Commies so that they can have the other raja defeated.
These moronic things have lead to the death of many princely states, just because they colluded with outsides to defeat another prince, And then
the outsider took over the whole subcontinent.
This is what we call crab mentality of both Indians and Pakistanis
Pakistan guaranteed safety and wanted India to a part of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline...it was India that opted out of the alliance looking for the nuclear deal.
"Building allies at Indias expense"...LOL , what a great strategist you are???!!!!.....I know people of your kind....people like you will prefer to lose the world cup final against any country but will never agree on losing prelim match against India........people like you are more than happy to damage pakistan as long as your actions are damaging or hurting India as well..LOL
Building allies at the expense of other regional rivals seems like a pretty popular concept... You seem to think its limited to Pakistan.
America does it, China does it, even India does it... Or do you think the Chinese are building ports in Bangladesh just to go boating on the weekend?
Its not personal, its politics. Better safe then sorry...
And im sure we could make compromise with India, but as things stand, Pakistans interests are diametrically opposed to Indias. Why should we compromise our security needs?
And Pakistan wasnt the one begging to have India on board, India was part of the deal from the start...
And we arent damaging Pakistan, we are defending it.. If you think India is a country we should be dealing with then you are free to believe what you like. Any sane person would understand that dealing with the Indians at least at the moment is pointless and dangerous.
^^^Strategic location means profit for Pakistan...but that has not been the case so far for Pakistan.......and that is primarily becoz till now decision makers in pakistan dont mind damaging pakistan as long as their actions are damaging India
Yes, profit through the Chinese and Central Asia, Iran and Afghansitan... Not through India...
If we come to rely on Indias much larger economy, our long term intrests will be compromised.
Unless India is willing to resolve ALL outstanding issues, Pakistan stand to gain absolutely nothing. Pakistans economy has grown in the past without India, and it can do so in the future aswell.
Im sorry if im not one of these starry eyed dreamers like some other members of this forum, but experience has taught us one thing, its that the only way to build relations with India is to resolve all outstanding issues first. If not, then its all pointless.. You can go throw garlands around the necks of the border guards at Waga if you like and sing Pak India bhai bhai, but I wont...
If you think India is a country we should be dealing with then you are free to believe what you like. Any sane person would understand that dealing with the Indians at least at the moment is pointless and dangerous.
***Im sorry if im not one of these starry eyed dreamers like some other members of this forum, but experience has taught us one thing, its that the only way to build relations with India is to resolve all outstanding issues first. If not, then its all pointless.. You can go throw garlands around the necks of the border guards at Waga if you like and sing Pak India bhai bhai, but I wont...
^^^^Absolutely you really cleared my doubts, lets abolish every relation/treaties before ALL issues between India and Pakistan are not resolved.....Why not first get rid of the Indus Water Treaty...That should be a good start.....India should take full advantage of its geographical location and water resources
If you think India is a country we should be dealing with then you are free to believe what you like. Any sane person would understand that dealing with the Indians at least at the moment is pointless and dangerous.
***Im sorry if im not one of these starry eyed dreamers like some other members of this forum, but experience has taught us one thing, its that the only way to build relations with India is to resolve all outstanding issues first. If not, then its all pointless.. You can go throw garlands around the necks of the border guards at Waga if you like and sing Pak India bhai bhai, but I wont...
^^^^Absolutely you really cleared my doubts, lets abolish every relation/treaties before ALL issues between India and Pakistan are not resolved.....Why not first get rid of the Indus Water Treaty...That should be a good start.....India should take full advantage of its geographical location and water resources
The Indus water treaty isnt relevant. It had to be done.
India wouldnt have controlled the flow of water into Pak if Kashmir were Pakistani as it rightly should have been.
Bottom line. We dont owe anything to India. And if India doesn't want to take part in regional projects, its at their expense not ours.
Ultimately it means Pakistan can gain stronger regional allies while India is left out. How is that a bad thing for us?
its the parliament of India that is stopping the Nuclear deal....Lok Sabha has still not allowed the govt to go ahead with the Nuclear deal....PM will again be presenting the case before the representatives of citizens of India in Lok Sabha
Good progress... three years and an election, still not approved... says it alot that what kind of terms Congress govt has agreed on and same are not accepted by the house of representatives...
anyway, any word on US congress's approval on the deal, last i heard Bush faced some opposition from the Congress on the deal.. i don't know what is the update on it...
If i am right on the 2nd para.. then what kind of deal it is? which is being delayed for like 3+ years... which is not being accepted by the law-makers of the both countries.. i wonder what is in it... the one who is providing has problem in giving it to India and the one on receiving end has some problem in accepting it...meantime, country is starving (for energy)...
Good progress... three years and an election, still not approved... says it alot that what kind of terms Congress govt has agreed on and same are not accepted by the house of representatives...
anyway, any word on US congress's approval on the deal, last i heard Bush faced some opposition from the Congress on the deal.. i don't know what is the update on it...
If i am right on the 2nd para.. then what kind of deal it is? which is being delayed for like 3+ years... which is not being accepted by the law-makers of the both countries.. i wonder what is in it... the one who is providing has problem in giving it to India and the one on receiving end has some problem in accepting it...meantime, country is starving (for energy)...
Congress is saying, why should US ignore the nuclear laws and why should India get an exception....and Lok Sabha is saying the deal will put jeopardize Indian nuclear program.
The Indus water treaty isnt relevant. It had to be done.
India wouldnt have controlled the flow of water into Pak if Kashmir were Pakistani as it rightly should have been.
Bottom line. We dont owe anything to India. And if India doesn't want to take part in regional projects, its at their expense not ours.
Ultimately it means Pakistan can gain stronger regional allies while India is left out. How is that a bad thing for us?
Why do you think it is not relevant??? Water is a resource that flows through Indian controlled territory....Water treaty should be thrown in Indus till all the issues are not resolved....If India follows your policy..
Either pakistan realizes what happening around the world or Pakistan will be set aside, if pakistan do not move away from completely Indian centric foreign policy .... There are larger objectives the world has and people will force pakistan to give access to India if pak does not give it willingly, pak has to ask itself; why does pak does not give access to india, when pakistan has to benefit as well?????...Countries in central asia, Iran want to have economic relations with India and so do world powers.....Future cannot be worst than it is already...Enemity with India has harmful for pakistan than useful and vice versa....
There is a broad sentiments of peace amongst the public that peace and economy should grow, even though economic potential of India and pakistan may be different...Jinnah wanted India and Pakistan to have realtions like US and Canada, but I guess I'm talking to a wrong person, a darinda that follows hazarat zaid hamid and is khoon ka pyaasa of non muslim blood. Jinnah would have slapped people like you.
Why do you think it is not relevant??? Water is a resource that flows through Indian controlled territory....Water treaty should be thrown in Indus till all the issues are not resolved....If India follows your policy..
Either pakistan realizes what happening around the world or Pakistan will be set aside, if pakistan do not move away from completely Indian centric foreign policy .... There are larger objectives the world has and people will force pakistan to give access to India if pak does not give it willingly, pak has to ask itself; why does pak does not give access to india, when pakistan has to benefit as well?????...Countries in central asia, Iran want to have economic relations with India and so do world powers.....Future cannot be worst than it is already...Enemity with India has harmful for pakistan than useful and vice versa....
There is a broad sentiments of peace amongst the public that peace and economy should grow, even though economic potential of India and pakistan may be different...Jinnah wanted India and Pakistan to have realtions like US and Canada, but I guess I'm talking to a wrong person, a darinda that follows hazarat zaid hamid and is khoon ka pyaasa of non muslim blood. Jinnah would have slapped people like you.
Its not relevant because unlike Kashmir, making deals over water sharing is relatively easier. And while India could hold out on Kashmir, it could not do so with issue of water sharing. The one relatively successful treaty between the two countries stands and should stand.
The issue here is whether or not India is willing to resolve the Kashmir issue, and whether we should consider allowing India any form of concession till it does.
Nothing will happen and no improvement will ever be made until the Kashmir issue remains to fester.
And until its resolved amicably, we have no reason to want to trust India or its intentions.
.....
Nothing will happen and no improvement will ever be made until the Kashmir issue remains to fester.
And until its resolved amicably, we have no reason to want to trust India or its intentions.
Even though we would like the K-word resolved with Indis. But let's not kid ourselves.
TAPI or IPI or any other line will remain hot air until we bring cash to the table. And right now, thanks to the pro-West Indi population, they are rolling in cash.
We can make cash too if we get the emotional outbursts out of our daily life.
The day Indis walk out of TAPI, there won't be a pipeline for Pak either.
Even though we would like the K-word resolved with Indis. But let's not kid ourselves.
TAPI or IPI or any other line will remain hot air until we bring cash to the table. And right now, thanks to the pro-West Indi population, they are rolling in cash.
We can make cash too if we get the emotional outbursts out of our daily life.
The day Indis walk out of TAPI, there won't be a pipeline for Pak either.
Dont be so naive. Cooperation needs peace. Peace stems from Kashmir. No peace means no TAPI or IPI.
Indian will never trust Pakistan so long as the Kashmir issue remains unresolved and vice versa.
Even if attempts are made at moving forward on so called confidence building measure, a single attack linked to groups fighting for Kashmiri freedom will derail the entire process...
Pakistan has grown in the past without India, you seem to forget this. We can do so in the future. There are other countries in the region that are willing to cooperate.
Its not emotion, its facts. You simply refuse understand the issues, and prefer to be among those glossy eyed idealists foolishly falling over themselves with dreams of India Pak bhai bhai... While that's a nice fantasy, the world doesn't work that way.
Lets be realistic. Its not only non-viable politically, economically etc to deal with India, but dealing with India would be morally wrong so long as they are in illegal occupation of Kashmir.
Congress is saying, why should US ignore the nuclear laws and why should India get an exception....and Lok Sabha is saying the deal will put jeopardize Indian nuclear program.
Both have valid comments/opinions.. do you see this deal materializing anytime soon...
So i was right!!! Manmoham Govt. did agreed to some terms which was not acceptable to the nation... that is why LOK-SABHA has issues on the deal... let see how many more years it'll take...
In mean time, let the country suffer from the energy shortage..
I personally dont know what are the details of the deal but I think there is some give and take in it…but all anti USA political parties want to gain mileage from any deal with US…but I care less about the nuclear power as at the moment it provides only less than 2 % of the power needs…And there is no shortage of fuel or power in India, India wants to have alternate sources of energy providers and does not want to depend of wahabi nations that provide the money and the funding of wahabi madrasas
BTW, Pakistan always wanted the same nuclear deal from USA as it was given to India…And now USA has agreed to it…lets how long Pakistan will take to agree to US terms.
Both have valid comments/opinions.. do you see this deal materializing anytime soon...
So i was right!!! Manmoham Govt. did agreed to some terms which was not acceptable to the nation... that is why LOK-SABHA has issues on the deal... let see how many more years it'll take...
In mean time, let the country suffer from the energy shortage..
Pakistan has started to appease US to achieve a semblance of parity with India centered on a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one New Delhi signed with the US.
Pakistan filed a petition against AQ Khan in High Court to investigate his ties with Irans nuclear program....
All these moves to get rid of the bad nuclear proliferation record of pakistan And pakistan is a responsible nuclear state..
Pakistan has started to appease US to achieve a semblance of parity with India centered on a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one New Delhi signed with the US.
Pakistan filed a petition against AQ Khan in High Court to investigate his ties with Irans nuclear program....
All these moves to get rid of the bad nuclear proliferation record of pakistan And pakistan is a responsible nuclear state..
Pakistan has started to appease US to achieve a semblance of parity with India centered on a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one New Delhi signed with the US.
Pakistan filed a petition against AQ Khan in High Court to investigate his ties with Irans nuclear program....
All these moves to get rid of the bad nuclear proliferation record of pakistan And pakistan is a responsible nuclear state..
Oh bhai, from where did Pakistan and Abdul Qadeer Khan came into picture... ???
And let me tell you if you are not well informed, France and China have offered Pakistan Civil Nuclear Technology, Pakistan had good relations with France and as far as China is concerned i guess Pakistan as already the deal and work is in progress...
American CIVIL NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY, if it ever materializes, will only add value and nothing else, we the Pakistani prays that this deal never happens...