although when you do talk about someone who changed his tune, dont forget gandhi who is known as a racist in africa but became the champion of all when he got back to India..maybe because he did not have black people to kick around anymore. I think his brown sahib days ended whenhe was treated by the whites in africa the same way he treated the blacks in africa.
Re: Allama Iqbal
dont crap around.. where's the proof he was a racist??? dont speculate like a village fool.. give me solid proof like i did.
Re: Allama Iqbal
I have no intentions to speculate like you. some sites, read his own words.
Re: Gandhi’s racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
btw, Rebel X you’ve opened a thread on this before, I believe during the south african controversy on whether to honour Gandhi.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=160154&highlight=gandhi+racist
nevertheless, I guess desibanda should have a chance to respond.
Re: Allama Iqbal
^ the writers seemed to be very biased, and trying to prove something out of no real substance 
Trying to say that the person was racist who got killed for advocating the rights of followers of some other religion namely muslims, ironically by his own follower.
Ghandi lived most of his life with the people of lower caste and tried to win acceptance for them.
If we go by theories mentioned in those links, Quad-e-Azam should be considered bigger racist. He lived most of life with white, dressed, talked like them all his life. So what ?
Should we call him. I think many skewed writers can make it base and write some lengthy crap about him too.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
ghandi has more islamic habits like avoiding alcohol and pork than jinnah
Re: Gandhi’s racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
the way i think of it if you judge people from the past from our perspective today, given the fact that they lived in racist societies, it isnt surprising at all that quite a few of them reflected the norms of their societies.
that said Code_red, I disagree with you. While this may be because Jinnah focused mainly on Muslim issues, there is no proof of him being a racist, along the lines of Gandhi. Wearing western clothing, or having a western lifestyle isnt racism in any way or by any definition.
and secondly this controversy isnt really limited to crackpot online theorists. there was a great deal of controversy amongst south african intellectuals when it came to awarding gandhi a government honour. bear in mind that racism is a much bigger deal over there, and so they havent really forgotten, and their motivation isnt stoking/baiting indians. heres one article from that time that isnt biased, and isnt dismissable as BS.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
^
the last line of the article says "later, he got more enlightened"....
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
ravage do you know who called blacks raisin heads?
Re: Gandhi’s racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
you wanna start a thread on that rvikz?
btw you refer to
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/011.sbt.html#001.011.664
its a bit of a stretch to say that hes terming blacks in general as being raisin heads. if anything its an extremely progressive statement in that hes saying a disfigured, black person should be respected as a leader over arabs.
quite different from saying that blacks shouldnt be on the same train cart as colours.
armughal: maybe he did.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
Code_red, how is the following crap?
[QUOTE]
The following film is a paid political advertisement by the government of India.
[/QUOTE]
You think the movie that polluted the minds of many to what Ghandi was supposed to be rather than what he was is biased? I dont think so, Indian Govt paid for the movie and bleeding heart liberals fell all over it. Again, true history was altered, because many in the next genertaions will never make an effort to learn the real history. It will suffice for them to see a movie and a staute of Ghandhi and say, Oh what a great man he was...
Re: Gandhi’s racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
we have ask the african visitors to pakistan and india and thier own views
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
if nothing, ravage, ur theory on gandhi only supports my original argument - "are all desis opportunists". if u are right, it supports me. if not, u are just crapping around. this thread really doesn't prove anything new, so u mite as well close it.
Re: Allama Iqbal
why does it hurt you guys so much to see Gandhi getting such respect around the world? Have you read anything he wrote or do you just go around using slander websites as bible?
Do you think a guy called Martin Luther King would have accepted Gandhi’s teachings if he was bigoted against blacks?
Re: Gandhi’s racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
bear in mind that it isnt my theory, nor did I bring this debate up. secondly I didnt say that everyone from that time was a racist, for example, there isnt evidence of Jinnah being one, or a lot of other prominent people. Thirdly racism does not equate to oppurtunism.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
ravage, you wrote "that said Code_red, I disagree with you. While this may be because Jinnah focused mainly on Muslim issues, there is no proof of him being a racist, along the lines of Gandhi."
what the heck do you mean 'along the lines of Gandhi'? and then you wuss out when someone questions you, that it is not your opinion?
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
actually if you spent some time reading what i wrote, and trying to understand it.. it isnt really that hard, you wouldnt be so dead wrong about what im saying and what im not.
alrite I know its useless to expect that from you. i said gandhi was a racist. i also said that wasnt surprising given that the society was permeated with racism then. it isnt 'my' theory because this issue was raised into the spotlight by south african intellectuals, as the guardian article summarises, and I didnt bring up this debate because it was brought up by No. X.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
no problemo. I can only read what you write, not what you had in mind.
If you say Gandhi was a racist, you have no idea what you're talking about. If you didn't say that, peace.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
I did say that, and there is evidence to support that he was a racist, atleast in one part of his life when he was in contact with blacks. maybe he changed later as one south african intellectual hoped.
Re: Gandhi's racism - split from Allama Iqbal thread
^ sure sure....just read how stupid it reads - you're saying there was 'evidence' for earlier part of his life (when he was less well known) but then you think 'maybe' he changed - that is when he was well known and gained respect around the world and started being called Mahatma. Maybe - my foot.
you can run from your baser emotions but you can't hide.
anyway, in the Gandhian spirit, we'll issue a benefit of doubt (you are Mod and I am not messing with you)