Future of Pakistan!

Some very disturbing signs are appearing in the sub-continent, during the past few months. We have a hostile nation to our East, which doesnt let any opportunity go by, to harm Pakistan’s interests. Because of Pakistan’s support to the taleban, and with the emergence of Northern Alliance on Afghanistan’s political scene, who still look at Pakistan with suspicion, incase of any hostility between India and Pakistan, Afghanistan is more likely to support India. The recent agreement that seems to have signed between Iran and India, in which the Iranians will provide bases, and sea ports in case of war between Pakistan and India. It seems that India wants to corner Pakistan, from all sides, and has achieved to some extent.

Now, lets consider the most important factor, the United States, which has made it clear during the past few months, that it will clearly side with the Indians in case of a Pak-India war. The modernization of India’s conventional weapons, and the Indo-US joint air excerices are some of its examples.

Considering the current situation thats emerging in the South Asia, with the American media calling Pakistan as a failed state over and over during the past few months, and projecting India and Iran as a possible successor to China in the region. Before 911 American thinktanks were projecting doomsday scenario’s for Pakistan, and forecasting that by 2015, it would be curtains for Pakistan.

Has the US embarked on the project to disintegrate Pakistan, so that the only thorn in the way of India to take Chinese position as the power of this region be achieved. If so, how do you guys think that this could be avoided?

I believe that the foremost thing is the cohesion between the different federating units. There should be equal distribution of resources between the different provinces. The NFC should be revised in such a way that the smaller provinces dont feel that they are being exploited at the expense of Punjab.

Secondly, we need to improve our image. The world knows that Pakistan can be easily pressurized, like the Americans made Pakistan change their Taleban policy overnight. Its because of these things that the neighbouring countries are suspicious of Pakistan. Like Iran, might feel nervous that if after the Iraq war, the Americans want to go after Iran. The Americans might coerce Pakistanis to allow them air space, and bases for the attacks. We should make it a policy, NOT to interfere in the internal matters of muslim neighbouring countries.

There’s another thing for us to ponder, is that why almost all muslim countries prefer India to Pakistan, except Saudi Arabia and UAE.

Zaavia dear,

Sit back and relax. When agreement of India-Iran signed, Iranian FM was in Islambad, claiming his country's solidarity with Pakistan.

Regardin' American Media callin' Pakistan a failed state, let them say. Wait for a debt writin' off in the early Feb.

As for NA, they are jokers just like their master on Eastern border.

I agree on your comments on domestic issues. But keep in mind, Provinces do have their autonomy, which they wanted for years.

PT, the thing is that I havent read the comments of Kamal Kharrazi, but in the past few years, the Iranians have been supporting India over Pakistan, especially during the rule of taleban. The Iranians are wary of the wahabiisation of Pakistan, and to counter that they might join hand with Indians. Secondly, the Iranians will get much more from India in return for giving up their bases during war...and it has been reported in many reputed American journals. Likewise, the statement Khatami gave in Delhi regarding Kashmir was quite vague, and to me it looked favouring India.

Pakistan is just gonna quietly exist in its neck of the woods and slowly disappear from the importance scale. Illiteracy ect ect have ruinied this counrty.

Someone should write a book like STUPID WHITE MEN for Pakistan, but there lacks a Pakistani with such great humour over a serious issue. Its a fine book by Moore, who looks at the issues of racism, sexism, corruption and general failings of the US system. Hilarious.

Zaavia,

Accordin’ to you, Iran favorin’ India. What I see, Iranians want to remain mutual between Pakistan and India, otherwise there should have been one-sided story.

Here’s an article, which makes a good read.

Pakistan turns to Iran for trade

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Zaavia,

Accordin' to you, Iran favorin' India. What I see, Iranians want to remian mutual between Pakistan and India, otherwise there should have been one-sided story.
[/QUOTE]

I Agree

both countries should not play this game of undemining each other
and think south asia as a region .

Excellent analysis Zaavia and PT :k:

Actually the thread I started up on the design of Indians in breaking up Pakistan kinda overlaps here. We are seeing what I was discussing domestically (sorry please read it over there, I am tired of retyping) in regards to India, it is also occuring on a foriegn level as well.

Couple of things I wanted to add, in case of war and the disintgration of Pakistan we have the nuke card. I hate nuclear weapons and especially its destruction but the urdu adage of “hum maar ke maarenge” applies here. I agree with PT regarding the NA jokers, theyre a worthless lot and their leadership has yet to join humanity. However we must mend fences with the Pakhtuns, many of whom are justifiably ticked off at the Taliban situation. As for Iran, I think Zaavia hitting the points..I think Iran in definately becoming more pro-Indian, I haven’t read the base use newstory but wouldn’t be surprised. Our policy in regards to Iran should be: 1. Provide absolutely NO assistance in military hardware or Nuclear technology, 2. Keep the trade open 3. Not to believe in the drivel their leadership doles out..4. And the most controvesial point of all: Discreetly support the anti-Islamist movements..support the reformers, moderates, Sunnis, ethnic minorities (Azeris, Turkomen, Baluchis), etc., As many of you know, I am a Pakistan first kinda guy and if the present Iran leadership has outlived their support for Pakistan then we whould cultivate those who do support us.

Guys, I do sense that we are getting boxed in here, this is high time for us to unite as a nation. I will agree with Zaavia on altering NFC and making sure that our different provinces are having their voices heard. We must reform the country and pursue a policy of national cohesion, for I see stormy times ahead. I have full faith in my fellow Pakistanis and if we remain united let the world’s pressures be damned!

As for Iran, I think Zaavia hitting the points..I think Iran in definately becoming more pro-Indian.

Just hot air.

In the comin' week, you will see Russian becomin' more pro-Pakistan and anti-America.

Politics works like that.

Good points Rajput, Zaavia and PT, but for Pakistan "Jehnu Allah rakhay Ohnoo kaun chakkay?"

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
**As for Iran, I think Zaavia hitting the points..I think Iran in definately becoming more pro-Indian.
*

Just hot air.

In the comin' week, you will see Russian becomin' more pro-Pakistan and anti-America.

Politics works like that.
[/QUOTE]

yara, Poltics may work like that but agreements don't. I see Iran agreeing to give Indians access to their bases, I see Iran being party to aggression against Pakistan. Iranian leadership should win an Oscer for their duplicity..PT, have you heard Russian statements even recently?

The point here is that we cannot count Iran anymore.

RF:

The agreement could have come because of India, not agreeing on Gas Pipeline, passing through Pakistan Territory. India, on the other hand asked Iran to carry out Pipeline through sea. Pakistan has control of 200 Miles Arabian Sea from her shore, therefore, big cost for Iranains. No choice for Iranians but to agree on Military agreement because they have to sell Gas any how to become a Nuclear Power. They will do it at any cost.

Regarding Russia, yes there comments come across as Putin, not once but twice, extended his hand of friendship towards Pakistan. On Putin invitation, Musharraf will be in Moscow next week; and soon after that Mr. Sinha is gonna be in Moscow.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
The agreement could have come because of India, not agreeing on Gas Pipeline, passing through Pakistan Territory. India, on the other hand asked Iran to carry out Pipeline through sea. Pakistan has control of 200 Miles Arabian Sea from her shore, therefore, big cost for Iranains. No choice for Iranians but to agree on Military agreement because they have to sell Gas any how to become a Nuclear Power. They will do it at any cost.

[/QUOTE]

LOL!

you guys just crack me up. :)

IMO, the reason why Iran hasnt been too chummy with Pak is the ISI's history with shias and the taliban; and Pak's letting american's run around in their country.

Here you go, Queer. :wink:

Iran urges India Pakistan talks

**The Iranian Foreign Minister, Kamal Kharrazi, has said that Tehran favours direct talks between India and Pakistan to resolve their dispute over Kashmir.


His comments came as a pro-Pakistan Kashmiri rebel group accused the Iranian president of insulting Kashmiri Muslims by participating in India’s Republic Day parade. **


Guess, whose side Iran is really on? :hehe:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
RF:

The agreement could have come because of India, not agreeing on Gas Pipeline, passing through Pakistan Territory. India, on the other hand asked Iran to carry out Pipeline through sea. Pakistan has control of 200 Miles Arabian Sea from her shore, therefore, big cost for Iranains. No choice for Iranians but to agree on Military agreement because they have to sell Gas any how to become a Nuclear Power. They will do it at any cost.

Regarding Russia, yes there comments come across as Putin, not once but twice, extended his hand of friendship towards Pakistan. On Putin invitation, Musharraf will be in Moscow next week; and soon after that Mr. Sinha is gonna be in Moscow.
[/QUOTE]

Interesting Analysis Brother PT.

I hope you and I are on the same page when I say that we should put Pakistan first, as President Mush said. For all the Muslim unity talk, most Mid-Eastern nations would not come to our aid if G-d forbid the integrity of Pakistan was threatened...you know what will be there right? Our nuclear tech., indegeniously developed and something that is ours.

So why do we shed tears if Iraq, a nation hostile to us and pro-Indian on Kashmir is targeted, or in the future when the self-serving Iranians suffer the consequences? The strange irony is that our bulwark of support in the recent days has come from non-Muslim nations of China and North Korea. Why must we let religion constrain our alliances?

A fitting response to Iran (in an ideal world) would be to set up a similar pact with Isreal. In case Pakistan or Israel is attacked, each others bases should be available..free exchange of defense and technical needs. After this alarming report, Iran has become an active enemy, and if we truly follow the Machievellian logic Isreal and Pakistan have much in common:

  • Both are only 2 states based on religion.
  • Both share hostile nations on three sides. With the Arab nations encircling Israel and India, Afghanistan, and Iran (apparently) circling Pakistan. -Both present arguably the best airfoeces in the world.

I know that Israel evokes a lot of negative emotions for Pakistanis, but I ask you all: What is more important? The Survival of Pakistan or the Palestinians? Call be biased but never will I place any interests over Pakistan.

Biraader RajputFurry,

pak alliance with israel? that's something that'd get even the semi-religious folks in pak out with their ak-47s against their own country. doesnt sound realistic at all.

wouldnt it be simpler for pak to make peace with india? :)

Biraader PT,

India's. :)

Queer,

You still day-dreamin’. :hehe:

RajputFury,

I wouldn’t go for Pakistan-Israel alliance though as you said, many Isreali Journalists experssed alliance with Pakistan. Some times, late I read an article about it in the News International. If I able to find, will post it then.

Sheddin’ tears for Iraq? What can I say about it, dude. Zia maybe dead but his presence still exists.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
RajputFury,

I wouldn't go for Pakistan-Israel alliance though as you said, many Isreali Journalists experssed alliance with Pakistan. Some times, late I read an article about it in the News International. If I able to find, will post it then.

Sheddin' tears for Iraq? What can I say about it, dude. Zia maybe dead but his presence still exists.
[/QUOTE]

Brother PT, look beyond the rhetoric and you will find the truth. I know my views would not be popular in Pakistani circles and in fact many people would be offended, because they are under illusions of a Muslim brotherhood. When ever we had to face obstacles, it was Pakistan that stood alone, am I wrong in saying that? We have given the Palestinians support for 50 years, have they or many other Arab countries done the same for the Kashmiris? I am tired of reading new reports of some Arab leader (and now Iranians as well) telling Pakistan and India to "resolve" their differences through dialogue..not only is that statement worthless but also insults my intelligence. Why can't we do the same huh? Thats right, Israelis and Palestinians should resolve disagreements bilaterally..while we open up diplomatic and trade relations with Israel. PT, I know you and many others find this topic touchy or even taboo, but what are those countries good for, if they do not come to our aid in our most tumultous hours? Lets step out in the reality and play India's game. I would love to see those Iranians getting in a frenzy if we were to ever conclude a similar agreement with Israel.

Hmm, maybe I'll start up a Pakistani-Israeli frienship group :)

You’re goin’ to start a friendship alliance of Pakistan-Isreal. I already got one, RF. Wanna come to L.A? :wink:

If look at Current Affairs, the whole damn wold is in recession. Most countries prefer to play a peace broker role like Russia, China, France etc.

Brother, no doubt, you have made valid points. Couldn’t say it better. The problem is in within our own system. What Pakistan can do to avoid war? You have a leader of Iraq, who has been ruling his country for 3 decades, has killed his own citizen, invaded Muslim countries, gased his own people. And in the end, we get the response of Down with American, kill Zionists, not to mention Mualanas’ Co.

Where am I pointin’ at, RF? I’m pointin’ at ourselves. The real enemy exists within us.

Oren, an Isreali, has made some great points. But I don’t think by recognizing Isreal would make any difference for Pakistan, not in a sense of military as Oren said. Jordan and Egypt had to accept Isreal because of Border meetin’ with them.

Oren Yiftachel: Israel’s pacifist

**Pakistan has refused to recognise Israel. There is no excuse for doing so when even Arab countries have recognised it. All people are not bad, it is like you have the Mullah and you have human rights groups; the same is in Israel. There are people in Israel who love peace … If Pakistan (recognises Israel), it can counter Israel’s growing co-operation with India" **

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
Someone should write a book like STUPID WHITE MEN for Pakistan, but there lacks a Pakistani with such great humour over a serious issue. Its a fine book by Moore, who looks at the issues of racism, sexism, corruption and general failings of the US system. Hilarious.
[/QUOTE]

never read ibne insha have u? or maybe mustaq ahmed yusufi?