btw, moving forward i would LOVE to see our dodgy FATA be brought more into pakistan constitution and a stricter border control. Otherwise any peace obtained there will not be long term as we know Pakistan is a favoured playground of other countries. (and yes we have let them play too)
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
btw, moving forward i would LOVE to see our dodgy FATA be brought more into pakistan constitution and a stricter border control. Otherwise any peace obtained there will not be long term as we know Pakistan is a favoured playground of other countries. (and yes we have let them play too)
Come to think of it.... why not make FATA an independent entity like Kashmir? Let them kill themselves, let them implement sharia (whichever flavor they like) on themselves, seal the borders with them. Its not like we are going to lose much, all we get is pain from them nowadays.
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
Come to think of it.... why not make FATA an independent entity like Kashmir? Let them kill themselves, let them implement sharia (whichever flavor they like) on themselves, seal the borders with them. Its not like we are going to lose much, all we get is pain from them nowadays.
Who will protect KP or later on Punjab from these lead brained "brothers" when KP falls as well? Plus, would afghanistan "allow" an independent FATA for whatever ability that they have to undermine it?
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
Who will protect KP or later on Punjab from these lead brained "brothers" when KP falls as well? Plus, would afghanistan "allow" an independent FATA for whatever ability that they have to undermine it?
Below was the hint (bolded):
Come to think of it.... why not make FATA an independent entity like Kashmir? Let them kill themselves, let them implement sharia (whichever flavor they like) on themselves, seal the borders with them. Its not like we are going to lose much, all we get is pain from them nowadays.
Currently the stake-holders don't like sealing borders with Afghanistan as there are "many families" who will get split if border is sealed. But if FATA is sealed out of Pakistan then they should not be able to complain. Mine the 'unmanned' areas if anyone wants to cross into Pakistan from FATA, go blow up yourself in smoke if you'd like.
Re: Future of FATA
I have made it into a separate thread because it seems people have quite a bit to say about it.
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
Below was the hint (bolded):
Currently the stake-holders don't like sealing borders with Afghanistan as there are "many families" who will get split if border is sealed. But if FATA is sealed out of Pakistan then they should not be able to complain. Mine the 'unmanned' areas if anyone wants to cross into Pakistan from FATA, go blow up yourself in smoke if you'd like.
That will provide them with grounds of saying that people in FATA have many families that live in Punjba or Sindh or rest of Pak; so they wouldn't want to be separated from Pak......Practically leaving Pakistanis no choice but to live the way they want us to live or die
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
Come to think of it.... why not make FATA an independent entity like Kashmir? Let them kill themselves, let them implement sharia (whichever flavor they like) on themselves, seal the borders with them. Its not like we are going to lose much, all we get is pain from them nowadays.
Just for your information, human beings like us live there. There are peaceful people there as well. You remind me of America after 911. "Lets bomb the Muslims. Which Muslims? Well any Muslims. Lets teach them a lesson".
I understand something needs to be done about the problem but it has to be legal and just. Legal, because unlike the rest of Pakistani provinces whose people voted to become part of Pakistan, FATA's was a different story I guess. So we can't just treat it like our colony and impose anything on them. There are people there who should have a say about what kind of system do they want. What I agree with is that the existing FCR system needs to be replaced with a modern democratic system.
We must not forget its not just us who have suffered because of FATA. They are also what they are today, because of us. We imposed the GUESTS on them. We used them in Afghanistan and Kashmir. While we were distributing books in the hands of our children, we were training their children for Jehad in Kashmir and Afghanistan. Afghanistan, which has a major influence on the Tribal Areas, was a liberal progressive country under Dr. Najeeeb. Had we not encouraged and incited insurgencies there, the situation in FATA might have been different today.
And if you still want a collective punishment for them, how about starting with the Punjab based sectarian outfits like LeJ or sealing off JHANG for that matter. Let them have their own system and kill each other. If the model is successful, you can proceed with Mureedke and perhaps the whole of south Punjab. But wait, what about the so called two nation theory? The Muslim ummah thing? First it was the chaar futye Bengalis, then the jahil baloch and now the pahtoon of FATA who are not good enough.
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
Come to think of it.... why not make FATA an independent entity like Kashmir? Let them kill themselves, let them implement sharia (whichever flavor they like) on themselves, seal the borders with them. Its not like we are going to lose much, all we get is pain from them nowadays.
I think thats a bit too harsh. What is happening in FATA is due to GoP's wrong policies, the onus is on the government to bring them in the mainstream. Read about FCR which is used in the area to control the areas, the areas are not in full jurisdiction of Pakistan and the judiciary.
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
That will provide them with grounds of saying that people in FATA have many families that live in Punjba or Sindh or rest of Pak; so they wouldn't want to be separated from Pak......Practically leaving Pakistanis no choice but to live the way they want us to live or die
I understand that part, but FATA + Afghanistan always opposed blocking of cross-border traffic, they will have to make a choice to either completely integrate into Pakistan like a full provincial status, or be independent.
Just for your information, human beings like us live there. There are peaceful people there as well. You remind me of America after 911. "Lets bomb the Muslims. Which Muslims? Well any Muslims. Lets teach them a lesson".
Its not about "teaching them a lesson", otherwise I'd have suggested a full blown military operation, which I fully oppose it even today.
I understand something needs to be done about the problem but it has to be legal and just. Legal, because unlike the rest of Pakistani provinces whose people voted to become part of Pakistan, FATA's was a different story I guess. So we can't just treat it like our colony and impose anything on them. There are people there who should have a say about what kind of system do they want. What I agree with is that the existing FCR system needs to be replaced with a modern democratic system.
There is no imposition, if they want to stay with Pakistan then Pakistani rules need to apply there, all laws which lets say are applicable in Karachi, Quetta, Lahore should also be applicable in all the FATA agencies.
We must not forget its not just us who have suffered because of FATA. They are also what they are today, because of us. We imposed the GUESTS on them. We used them in Afghanistan and Kashmir. While we were distributing books in the hands of our children, we were training their children for Jehad in Kashmir and Afghanistan. Afghanistan, which has a major influence on the Tribal Areas, was a liberal progressive country under Dr. Najeeeb. Had we not encouraged and incited insurgencies there, the situation in FATA might have been different today.
We did not train their children only, we only opened camps which were training everyone from Pakistan, not just their children. We did not incite insurgencies in Afghanistan of Dr Najeeb, it was the orphan Afghanistan where everyone was choking everyone else.
And if you still want a collective punishment for them, how about starting with the Punjab based sectarian outfits like LeJ or sealing off JHANG for that matter. Let them have their own system and kill each other. If the model is successful, you can proceed with Mureedke and perhaps the whole of south Punjab. But wait, what about the so called two nation theory? The Muslim ummah thing? First it was the chaar futye Bengalis, then the jahil baloch and now the pahtoon of FATA who are not good enough.
In Punjab, Sindh, KPK and Baluchistan there are laws which are not implemented. Yes there needs to be operation against them. When I suggested FATA as independent unit its not because of existence of extremist elements only. In Punjab, KPK, Sindh, Baluchistan its possible to arrest anyone anytime but that is not so easy in FATA.
Re: Peace Dialog with taleban
I think thats a bit too harsh. What is happening in FATA is due to GoP's wrong policies, the onus is on the government to bring them in the mainstream. Read about FCR which is used in the area to control the areas, the areas are not in full jurisdiction of Pakistan and the judiciary.
We need to abandon everything and re-evaluate things based on last few decades. If they don't like our laws and can't allow closing borders with Afghanistan and can't follow Pakistan's rules then we need to close borders with them and let them be what they want.
Re: Future of FATA
Its not the people of FATA which are the problem. It was quite peaceful and undisturbed prior 2001. Some of the comments against the people of FATA are wrong and unjust on this forum. Its not the people of FATA you have to worry about but those in GHQ who have a warped minds and warped policies. The chickens came home to roost.
Re: Future of FATA
i dont know why you people wanna take longer route, just stop killing them and they will let you/us live in peace.
Re: Future of FATA
Is it really that simple? Will they allow Eid Milad procession? Will they stop attacking mazars? Will they stop killing shias? How can they tolerate on earth - these shirks & bidats?
Re: Future of FATA
Is it really that simple? Will they allow Eid Milad procession? Will they stop attacking mazars? Will they stop killing shias? How can they tolerate on earth - these shirks & bidats?
what used to happen before 2001?
Re: Future of FATA
People of FATA need to kick these criminal terrorist elements out of their areas ofcourse with the help of govt.
Re: Future of FATA
Its not the people of FATA which are the problem. It was quite peaceful and undisturbed prior 2001. Some of the comments against the people of FATA are wrong and unjust on this forum. Its not the people of FATA you have to worry about but those in GHQ who have a warped minds and warped policies. The chickens came home to roost.
A lot needs to happen, I agree. We need to start correcting things, and that would be one part of it. FATA is part of problem too, and we need to correct that one too, it needs to follow same rules as other parts of Pakistan.
i dont know why you people wanna take longer route, just stop killing them and they will let you/us live in peace.
I wish it was that simple, once you have gangsters seeing benefits in easy money, easy power they are not going to let it go so easily.
what used to happen before 2001?
We need to go back to Pakistan of 1960s, 1970s... I wish we could delete the history from 1980-2013.
Re: Future of FATA
These things happening since 1983 in Pakistan in one way or the other.
Re: Future of FATA
And why they are attacking the people i mentioned earlier? Are these people responsible for USA attacks and drones?
And look what their brothers in faith did with innocent people in Nairobi, Kenya?
Re: Future of FATA
A lot needs to happen, I agree. We need to start correcting things, and that would be one part of it. FATA is part of problem too, and we need to correct that one too, it needs to follow same rules as other parts of Pakistan.
I agree with you. Pakistan is ruling FATA through FCR which was introduced by the British to control the tribals. The political agent of FATA is the person who decides for the area and no one can over ride his decisions. The tribes are responsible for maintaining law and order in their areas and in case of crimes whole tribes are punished. The tribals cannot appeal against the punishment meted out to them. The areas do not come into Pakistani judiciary's jurisdiction. Can you think of any other area in the country having similar laws? The parliament can repeal FCR and formally integrate the areas into Pakistan.
Before 2001, I didnt even know about FATA or the different agencies there (SWA, NWA, Orakzai, Khyber, Mohmand, Kurram etc). As FATA used to be known as "allaqa e ghair". Its us who have never thought of those areas (and the people living there as our own).
As far as deradicalization is concerned I think all of the Pakistanis need that now.
Re: Future of FATA
Future for FATA? Well for now the only thing army wants is a pacified and friendly FATA which will serve as a much needed buffer state between Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is essential that tribal leaders and locals put some trust in Pakistan military and military/Federal government must take active steps to build some infrastructure in tribal ares. Efforts should be made to revive the local economy so the guns and wars is the only industry there. In terms of border control, even if they decide to semi seal the borders, I'm sure they can still come up with a system where families can hop in and out provided they pass all the regulations. If you wanna do things then do it properly, surely our Allies can make some relevant efforts to make sure Afghanistan and Pakistan can mutually agree on a systematized and secure border control. But why would they do that? Innit?