Thanks PG, I think I am done trying the desi thing. I have never been able to align myself with the mindset, we have many friends in the multicultural realm so maybe we stick to that, never had problems with manners and lack of empathy there. I think it is the power trip thing when people are trying to tell you how to live your life. My wife used to get lectures also about raising kids from moms that had obese children playing video games and had behavioral problems at school. This new lady doctor friend of mine is very involved in the community and was telling me the problems with lack of social skills where a lot of new converts were not completely included in the get-together and they ended up reverting. She is formed a group of socially accomplished young people that will provide support and inclusion to the converts and new comers.