ABBEVILLE, France, Jan 19 (AFP) - An 82 year-old French priest was fined EUR 800 (USD 990) Monday for describing the Koran as a handbook for the devil.
Philippe Sulmont was found guilty of “provoking discrimination, hatred or violence” for comments he made in a letter to his parishioners in the northern town of Domqueur at the end of 2002.
“The Asiatics proliferate and invade our land, bringing with them an ideology that threatens the whole world,” he wrote.
“Indeed I would add there is no such thing as ‘moderate’ Islam. All the populations infected by the Muslim religion are indoctrinated by the Koran - a holy book which is the manual for the extension of the kingdom of the devil at the expense of the kingdom of Christ,” he said.
Sulmont was also ordered to give a symbolic one euro in damages to the League of Human Rights, which brought the case, and to pay for the judgment to be published in two local newspapers.
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SICK. And they say 'anti-Semitism' (usually meaning hatred of Jews) is on the rise. Islamophobia is just as, if not equally, on the rise.
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I think it's pretty safe to say that anti-semitism is quite a bit more entrenched within Islam than "islamophobia" is in the other major religions. You're definitely correct that it's on the rise though.
My suggestion Nadia is that you consider turning this disgust "inward" on your own religion and concentrate on eliminating the intolerance toward other religions that seems to be part of the muslim identity. This only breeds extremism and hatred.
My guess is that islamaphobia will/can only stop growing throughout the western world when muslims quit blowing things up.
I think it's pretty safe to say that anti-semitism is quite a bit more entrenched within Islam than "islamophobia" is in the other major religions. You're definitely correct that it's on the rise though.
My suggestion Nadia is that you consider turning this disgust "inward" on your own religion and concentrate on eliminating the intolerance toward other religions that seems to be part of the muslim identity. This only breeds extremism and hatred.
My guess is that islamaphobia will/can only stop growing throughout the western world when muslims quit blowing things up.
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Here is a sterotypical post form Mr. right. Maybe you need to learn more about Islam and Muslims before making statements like that. How about, Mulsims will start believing western countries when they are not attacked/occupied without provocation? Muslims will start listening to people like you when you stop speaking from both sides of your mouth...condem attrocities committed against Muslims as much you do for other nations/religions (see Jews and Israel).
Code Red, Thank you for your response i respect your opinions.
i agree, many of us do not respect even our own religious personalities. That does not, i think, give anyone else the right to make these types of statements. i am NOT at all arguing we are perfect, or there is no hatred amongst Muslims themselves - i think we have seen MORE THAN AMPLE proof that that does exist around the world. However, i still do not believe that that justifies anyone - particularly someone in a position of authority and influence as this French individual - to make these types of comments. Nothing is gained by doing so.
Stew, I understand your post all right. Its obvious that you will never admit that Muslims are not the only trouble makers inthis world. Your comment regarding "muslims blowing things up".... Was Timothy Mcveigh a Muslim? or did he not "blow up" a building? How many buildings were "blown up" by US army in attack on Afghanistan and then Iraq? Did you keep count of that? Did you bother to keep count of how many inncoent people died becasue of those attacks? Oh btw there were no WMDs...Iraq was never a threat to US peace and security. Try refuting these simple facts first before you dive into philosophical discussion about religions.
no, muslims are not the only troublemakers in the world. The bush administration definitely has created more than their share of trouble. But in America, we have processes in place to ensure that troublemakers like McVeigh are dealt with properly. Intolerance is frowned upon, and policies and/or administrations are changed if they aren't in line with the people's wishes. Where are there similar self-correcting processes in Islam? Where/How does it promote tolerance?
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Stu: *
no, muslims are not the only troublemakers in the world. The bush administration definitely has created more than their share of trouble. But in America, we have processes in place to ensure that troublemakers like McVeigh are dealt with properly. Intolerance is frowned upon, and policies and/or administrations are changed if they aren't in line with the people's wishes. Where are there similar self-correcting processes **in Islam*? Where/How does it promote tolerance?
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PA, You are absolutely right, many individuals would not notice (or at least not visibly oppose) that. However, my beef is that this is not "Islam" - if we are talking about cultural/political/legal practices in Muslim countries, then that's a whole separate other issue. My argument is that Islam itself does not condone hatred whatever form it manifests itself in, but Muslim countries do - as i have often stated in this very Forum. If Stu would replace his use of the word "Islam" in the statement above with "Muslim countries", then i would (for once) shut up.
^ it's not that simple. You could quote a passage from the Koran that promotes tolerance, and 5 khalifah guys would be here two minutes later with quotes like "don't trust jews or christions" and "what their hearts hide is much worse" yada, yada, yada.
then, they aren't criticized because they are muslims. There is no process for promoting tolerance
Cultural political and legal practices in 'Muslim' countries borrow heavily from their religion or let's say religion as they understand it. Intolerance against other religions is not something our Holy book teaches.. which is why the priest was fined for his ignorance and hate mongering.
But can we say for a certainty that Muslims (not Islam) don't consider themself 'superior' to other religions? don't they believe that in order to 'establish' their religion or system it's fair to slay the people who do not agree with them? Do not some parts of their religious texts teach intolerance towards other religions (Jews etc)?
But can we say for a certainty that Muslims (not Islam) don't consider themself 'superior' to other religions?
Yes, they do. I know I do. I believe that Islam is the only religion that is true and complete. Islam is more than a religion its way of life.
don't they believe that in order to 'establish' their religion or system it's fair to slay the people who do not agree with them?
I dont even know how to answer this one. Where did you get the idea that most Muslim wantto slay people in order to establish their religion? All of the Muslims I know do not think that way. PA maybe its time you changed your company (as in your friends) :D
Do not some parts of their religious texts teach intolerance towards other religions (Jews etc)?
It does not teach intolerance, it teaches you about the true nature of those religions. If you are going to question the word of Allah, go ahead. BTW what exactly is intolerance?
intolerance is the hadith about a Jew hiding behind a stone and the stone calling out to inform the Muslim there is a Jew hiding behind it and to slay him....
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
intolerance is the hadith about a Jew hiding behind a stone and the stone calling out to inform the Muslim there is a Jew hiding behind it and to slay him....
u want more?
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That particular is in context of war.... I thought only anti-Muslims use ahadith and Quranic verses out of context.
PA, You are absolutely right, many individuals would not notice (or at least not visibly oppose) that. However, my beef is that this is not "Islam" - if we are talking about cultural/political/legal practices in Muslim countries, then that's a whole separate other issue.
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Nadia, of course, there are -as you say- only a few 'muslims' who have anti-semitic feelings, and you even say that they are not handling according to islam. But cannot we conversely say that the 'they' (which you use in your very first post) are just a minority as well, perhaps a smaller minority than the anti-jewish muslims. Can't we say that this isn't Jewism and Christianity either? So, I would change the 'they' into 'some people in the western countries' just as you advice Stu to change 'muslims' into 'some muslims'
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by Kaleem
But can we say for a certainty that Muslims (not Islam) don't consider themself 'superior' to other religions? <<<<
Yes, they do. I know I do. I believe that Islam is the only religion that is true and complete. Islam is more than a religion its way of life
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what kind of strange answer is this. It's baseless and argumentless. Any person from any religion in the world can say exactly the same things: "my religion is more than a religion, its a way of life". Based on this solely, you cannot 'prove' that your religion is superior than others. You need hard/empirical facts.
So "Islamophobia" is justified because at times religous intolerance is acceptable in muslim countries. So two wrongs do make a right. Yeah makes sense.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
let's make some assumptions..
How much would a Mullah in a 'Muslim' country be fined for insulting another religion?
or let me rephrase: would anyone even notice? let alone prosecute him?
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you have a very strong point pa, i remeber in almost all the jummah hutbahs, the mullah g will pray for the destruction of non muslims, now how stupid is that ! we r just a bunh of hypocrytes
i respect your opinions.